A magnificent specimen tree for discussion

[october]

Hello John,
Unfortunately, I do not have a before pic of this tree.. If it is anything like the artists other work, I am sure that an incredible creation came out of stock that looked nothing like the final product.

I have stated over the years that every tree deserves to be the best bonsai it can be. I will say that I was surprised at the amount of criticm in this post.. I, personally, am neutral about it.. I think that things can and will be learned from this thread. I did think that the responses would be about 90%praising this tree. However, that is not the point, I enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts and please keep posting your opinions.

Rob

 

[Victrinia Ridgeway]

Not one to ignore a point that's been pointed out to me...

What's right about the tree....

Beautiful pot choice... it's formality supports the very controled structure of the branching and pad development.

Patience has been exercised on this tree as it is a work of years... and possibly many hands.... because you can't get veining like that in short time frames.

A suitable amount of deadwood is present, and stubs which tell you where the original tree was heading structurally have been somewhat refined, though that could be improved upon further.

The balance of the apex is good is one were to leave it all... the slope of the #1 branch follows the line of the curve and fills the negative space in a pleasing way.

There's just enough foliage on the right to create tension and balance in the overall flow of the canopy.

Everything about the tree exudes feminine aesthetics in their purest form.


Howz that to start?

V

 

[greerhw]

All Ya'll know I'm a redneck, so there's no telling what I might say. There are a few changes I would make to suit my tastes, but it's a nice tree. Little things don't bother me, there are no perfect trees, so I just enjoy the overall effect. With junipers, you have to work with what you have.

keep it green,
Harry

 

[october]

Things that I like about the tree are that each main side branch is a cascade in itself. By this I mean, if you look at each branch individually, it looks like a cascade bonsai on it's own. Then collectively, the entire tree undulates down like a waterfall. Since each branch is like a well balanced cascade, collectively they form a well balanced composition. I also like the pot very much.

Rob

 

[johng]

a couple quick observations...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWncKut1gvA


John

 

[Victrinia Ridgeway]

Well shoot... where did I put my ear buds??????

I assume that's you...

V

 

[irene_b]

http://www.youtube.com/user/GrahamWPotter

 

[Smoke]

There are a lot of things I like about the tree as it is. I like the deadwood. I like the way it has been treated. I look at this as more of a living sculpture and so it has been treated that way. This trunk does not look natural so accentuate the look with artistry, which has been done quite well. This almost looks like one of those Tony Tickle sand blasted trunks????

Now the branches, what I like is that interplay between those two lower branches. Eventhough they are bar branches, they have been handled properly, They are Asymetrical, which makes them work. I like them so much that I would keep them and lose the top. The tree is too tall for a bunjin. Let me rephrase that, not too tall in strict dimensions for a bunjin, just two tall with those great bottom branches and all that going on above that adds nothing to the composition.

Me,.....I would lose the top. Save the bottom. Course I say that about all ladies.....

 

[Victrinia Ridgeway]

That's exactly what I would do with it also.... take it down... and it's marvelous. What's interesting as well is how the whole interplay with the kusamono even changes... there is intimacy in the image that wasn't there before.

V

 

[Smoke]

That's exactly what I would do with it also.... take it down... and it's marvelous. What's interesting as well is how the whole interplay with the kusamono even changes... there is intimacy in the image that wasn't there before.

V

Good we agree here....I have an in depth critique coming of your display. Don't get me wrong...I love it, it just needs some tweaking.

 

[Victrinia Ridgeway]

My dear Al...

Let's review how many times I have done this sort of thing before.....hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

ummmmmmmmmmmmm

............like never.

I am profoundly grateful that you are taking the time to make a learning experiance of it. I will also have to post the private critque I got from Paul Goff about it... as his was exceedingly enlightening as well.

Frankly I'm just thrilled I didn't blow it completely... I am feeling good about that... so I will only love learning from what you have to say about it. There's so much to learn and I feel like one starved...

V

 

[cquinn]

Things that I like about the tree are that each main side branch is a cascade in itself. By this I mean, if you look at each branch individually, it looks like a cascade bonsai on it's own. Then collectively, the entire tree undulates down like a waterfall. Since each branch is like a well balanced cascade, collectively they form a well balanced composition. I also like the pot very much.

Rob

He brought the branches down so the foliage would be closer to the trunk. He had to do this because of the thin trunk to have his informal upright (think Naka's book, tall + Skinny = branching closer to the trunk). The only other options would have been to jinn the branches and have a literati or graft farther back on the branches and still have a literati. I think he made the right choice. Like Harry said, with Junipers you have to work with what you have most of the time.

 

[greerhw]

There are a lot of things I like about the tree as it is. I like the deadwood. I like the way it has been treated. I look at this as more of a living sculpture and so it has been treated that way. This trunk does not look natural so accentuate the look with artistry, which has been done quite well. This almost looks like one of those Tony Tickle sand blasted trunks????

Now the branches, what I like is that interplay between those two lower branches. Eventhough they are bar branches, they have been handled properly, They are Asymetrical, which makes them work. I like them so much that I would keep them and lose the top. The tree is too tall for a bunjin. Let me rephrase that, not too tall in strict dimensions for a bunjin, just two tall with those great bottom branches and all that going on above that adds nothing to the composition.

Me,.....I would lose the top. Save the bottom. Course I say that about all ladies.....

Since you chopped the top, lets put lake pipes and fender skirts on it.....

keep it green,
Harry

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Thing you want to avoid with bar branches is the straight line that cuts across your composition. While this tree certainly has a bar branch potential, the bending of the branches immediately breaks the visual line so that it is not at all apparent. It is there, but the effect is minimalized.

I assume that in person (and in 3D) the effect would be lessened still, since the back branch also is twisted forward and bends around in front of the trunk line.

 

[Bill S]

and if that ain't enough, I got my pink slip Daddy. Coming off the line when the branch turns green.....I put fertilizer in the water to make my needles sheen. - Ya I know I cant sing for ....

I like the shorter version better too.

 

[Victrinia Ridgeway]

Bill... I r so lost now its nut funny.

V

 

[Attila Soos]

There is not a trace of bar branch here.

For a bar branch to be present, it is not enough to have two branches on the opposite sides of the trunk. As Bonsai Nut said, the two branches have to form a straight line cutting across the trunk. This is not the case here, so no bar branch. The only thing you have to avoid in this case, is to have a swelling in the trunk (reverse taper) caused by the two opposite branches. That is also not the case here.

In fact, the alleged "bar branches" are the most important focal point of this tree, they give the tree its whole character.

Therefore, reducing the top seems to be a great idea, since that would enhance the importance and visual weight of the two lower branches. It would also simplify the structure of the tree, leaving it with the most essential parts - another great thing. And at last, but not least, it would please Ms.Vic, because she could now finally call the tree a "literati" (due to the reduced number of branches), which she has difficulty doing, as it is right now (not that the artist cares what category his work is boxed into).

But reducing the top also comes with some drawbacks, and that's why I think that it would be a great mistake. It also magnifies the lower trunk, which is the least interesting, and most boring part of the tree. Sure, the lower trunk has a nice vein, and graceful angle, but nevertheless, it is still a big bland bow. As it is right now, the upper section of the trunk has more movement and dynamism, so it offsets the slow lower part. In other words, the lower trunk and upper trunk have a pleasing proportion.

The second drawback of cutting off the top, is that it diminishes the dignity and presence of the tree. Larger trees always have a greater dignity and presence, compared to a small tree - this is part of the appeal of larger trees. The soaring top and rhytmic alternating branches add a subtle power to the tree, and that would be lost, if we get rid of the top and focus only on the essential lower branches.

Sometimes less is more, but less can also be less.

So this is my counterpoint to the idea of reducing the top, which I would agree to, if the lower trunk was more interesting.

 

[cquinn]

There is not a trace of bar branch here.

For a bar branch to be present, it is not enough to have two branches on the opposite sides of the trunk. As Bonsai Nut said, the two branches have to form a straight line cutting across the trunk. This is not the case here, so no bar branch. The only thing you have to avoid in this case, is to have a swelling in the trunk (reverse taper) caused by the two opposite branches. That is also not the case here.

In fact, the alleged "bar branches" are the most important focal point of this tree, they give the tree its whole character.

Therefore, reducing the top seems to be a great idea, since that would enhance the importance and visual weight of the two lower branches. It would also simplify the structure of the tree, leaving it with the most essential parts - another great thing. And at last, but not least, it would please Ms.Vic, because she could now finally call the tree a "literati" (due to the reduced number of branches), which she has difficulty doing, as it is right now (not that the artist cares what category his work is boxed into).

But reducing the top also comes with some drawbacks, and that's why I think that it would be a great mistake. It also magnifies the lower trunk, which is the least interesting, and most boring part of the tree. Sure, the lower trunk has a nice vein, and graceful angle, but nevertheless, it is still a big bland bow. As it is right now, the upper section of the trunk has more movement and dynamism, so it offsets the slow lower part. In other words, the lower trunk and upper trunk have a pleasing proportion.

The second drawback of cutting off the top, is that it diminishes the dignity and presence of the tree. Larger trees always have a greater dignity and presence, compared to a small tree - this is part of the appeal of larger trees. The soaring top and rhytmic alternating branches add a subtle power to the tree, and that would be lost, if we get rid of the top and focus only on the essential lower branches.

Sometimes less is more, but less can also be less.

So this is my counterpoint to the idea of reducing the top, which I would agree to, if the lower trunk was more interesting.

Looks like those branches are on different live veins, and the one on the right actually comes from the back. Shouldn't be a problem with swelling.

 

[Attila Soos]

Looks like those branches are on different live veins, and the one on the right actually comes from the back. Shouldn't be a problem with swelling.

That's right. Originally, it was all one trunk. But a long time ago, the shari along the trunk was created, and that took care of the problem.

This tree is a very good study about how to deal with this branch problem that we are talking about.

 

[Bill S]

V, think Beach Boys, or are you that young. Little Duece Coup. Harry knows, I did it for his referance to lake pipes and chopped cars, ala the Beach Boys. Sorry for the senior moment.