A lot of work ahead of me...white pine

[Vance Wood]

See what I know about pines ... I never had any luck with them either, they are the one tree that I have in my 3 strike I'm out rule.

ed

You should not give up on doing Pines. You ought to consider a Scots Pine they should do very well where you live. It is my suspicion that you probably are messing around with the wrong trees.

 

[Adair M]

Ed's a snowbird. He winters in Florida, and summers in Ohio (I think).

 

[edprocoat]

Ed's a snowbird. He winters in Florida, and summers in Ohio (I think).

Yup, oh observant one !

ed

 

[Pals_id]

Thanks for all the information within this post. It has helped me understand more about the pine varieties. I'm also glad that other members have learned something from it too...and not just newbies like me! As mentioned, I have read one book so far and will review some chapters and consult other members and local folks before doing anything to a tree. I would rather take the time to research more than do anything that would be detrimental to the health of the plant. With that said, I will probably learn the most from first hand experience by seeing how the different varieties react to the techniques used to create bonsai. Learning this over time is what will make this a rewarding hobby for me.

....Also fill out your profile so we know where you are. You should consider joining a club. Experienced folks can help a lot and also give you sources of local material at decent prices.

Thanks for the information. I am planning on sitting in on a local club meeting later this month. I will also fill out my profile so other members know more about me. Thanks

 

[M. Frary]

You should not give up on doing Pines. You ought to consider a Scots Pine they should do very well where you live. It is my suspicion that you probably are messing around with the wrong trees.

Vance. Is there a particular cultivar of Scotch pine that works best for bonsai or just regular scotch pine is O.K. I'm asking because there's hundreds out my back door from seedlings to full grown ones.

 

[Vance Wood]

Vance. Is there a particular cultivar of Scotch pine that works best for bonsai or just regular scotch pine is O.K. I'm asking because there's hundreds out my back door from seedlings to full grown ones.

That I suppose is the one major problem with getting into Scotts Pines, the best are not cultivars but sub-species or strains from different locations. If you start getting into cultivars you start getting into trees that are grafted for the most part and I find them to be less than suitable. As to which strain; I prefer the French Blue strain. I have not clue if any nursery around is going to have this I get my stock from Christmas tree farms.

When I have some time we can get into where if you like but you will have to have a tax # and a nursery license.

 

[Adair M]

Personally, I think the Japanese Black Pines are the best pines to learn on. There is far more information on how to grow JBP than any other variety. They are the most vigorous (fastest growing), develop mature bark earlier than the others, they back bud easily, they're easy to graft if you want (or need) to, they develop thick trunks, you can force ramification, the needles are easily shortened with the proper technique, they tolerate root pruning, you can train them into virtually any style, or size.

Once you master JBP, you can learn the others as "variations".

 

[Jaberwky17]

If it makes you feel better

I just bought a mail order cedrus libani from a west coast nursery. I spoke to the guy on the phone and told him this was for bonsai, and he said he'd choose one with a decent graft. This is what I got. Caveat emptor, I guess.

Foliage is fine, and it's really healthy but oh man, that graft scar is pretty much impossible. So I guess I will care for this one and practice on the species and I learned the hard way that mail order means you can't control what you get 100%.

 

[Vance Wood]

I just bought a mail order cedrus libani from a west coast nursery. I spoke to the guy on the phone and told him this was for bonsai, and he said he'd choose one with a decent graft. This is what I got. Caveat emptor, I guess.

Foliage is fine, and it's really healthy but oh man, that graft scar is pretty much impossible. So I guess I will care for this one and practice on the species and I learned the hard way that mail order means you can't control what you get 100%.

Major reason I do not do mail order on specialty trees like this one. You mention Bonsai to someone that is really not a bonsai person you really don't know what you might get, especially if they think bonsai means messed up and ugly. I remember when I first started my mother would look at trees, just trying to help, and she would look at some butt ugly tree with these tangled messed up roots on the soil surface and proclaim, "boy look at those roots".

 

[Pals_id]

I think I have learned my lesson on mail ordering trees intended for bonsai use. The email I received in reply to mine was rather condescending and he actually wrote "Please do not order from us in the future". That is probably the best piece of advice they could have given me for future success in the hobby!

He also mentioned that the graft could be cleaned up before planting and letting it grow. What methods can be used at this point to make this graft less noticeable over time?

 

[discusmike]

Evergreengardenworks has libani on there own roots for sale, I believe 35 $ for one gallons.

 

[Nybonsai12]

The email I received in reply to mine was rather condescending and he actually wrote "Please do not order from us in the future". That is probably the best piece of advice they could have given me for future success in the hobby!

Wow. Hollow creek huh? I believe some people have mentioned getting soils from their but this is enough to make me never consider anything from them. I didn't read every line of the link you posted, but I don't see in their description of their tree where they mention it is grafted either. Guess they don't realize how fast word can get around.

 

[Vance Wood]

Wow. Hollow creek huh? I believe some people have mentioned getting soils from their but this is enough to make me never consider anything from them. I didn't read every line of the link you posted, but I don't see in their description of their tree where they mention it is grafted either. Guess they don't realize how fast word can get around.

It is rather odd to me that they (meaning the bonsai nursery) would have this prominently displayed on their second page entitled ABOUT US: About Us
We have been growing and selling bonsai trees for 15 years and stake our reputation on each and every order. What we do not have in stock we buy from other growers, not faceless brokers or multinational corporations. This allows us to have a relationship with the grower and that ensures that barring problems thrown at us by Mother Nature, our supply is steady. Value, consistency and dependability are the reasons you should choose us.

I guess this is only good until purchase is made?

 

[Vance Wood]

It is rather odd to me that they (meaning the bonsai nursery) would have this prominently displayed on their second page entitled ABOUT US: About Us
We have been growing and selling bonsai trees for 15 years and stake our reputation on each and every order. What we do not have in stock we buy from other growers, not faceless brokers or multinational corporations. This allows us to have a relationship with the grower and that ensures that barring problems thrown at us by Mother Nature, our supply is steady. Value, consistency and dependability are the reasons you should choose us.

I guess this is only good until purchase is made?

15 years around bonsai is enough to have a cursory understand the things bonsai growers are looking for. I also understand that sometimes you cannot be expected to hire employees that know as much as you do but this goes beyond the tolerable. This tree is not acceptable for bonsai in any book.

 

[Paradox]

I hate to say this, but at @ $35 you got what you paid for. I would have advised against emailing them once I saw the link to the product.
JWP are normally very expensive as Rob indicated. The whole thing with grafts is the reason I have not bought any of the JWP prebonsai I have seen even from some place like New England Bonsai Gardens.

As for the quality of the graft, and the response you got, I am a bit surprised. Notice the picture they show, you can hardly see the graft?
I always thought Hollow Creek (at least by appearances) to have a good reputation. I think someone here (Judy?) has gotten trees from them in the past. However, that said I have never ordered from them myself because the pictures on their web site are frankly terrible. If I cant get a good look at a tree at least in a picture, I am not going to order it. They definitely should have mentioned that these were grafted, unless they assume that people that are into Bonsai know this already....

Anyway welcome to the forum. You've gotten some good advice, but do some more research. Hope you have better luck with your next purchase.

 

[Jaberwky17]

Evergreengardenworks has libani on there own roots for sale, I believe 35 $ for one gallons.

I wish I would have realized that before. I thought the only cedrus Brent had was the specimens. Thanks for the tip - everything I've gotten from him has been great stuff.

 

[Vance Wood]

I wish I would have realized that before. I thought the only cedrus Brent had was the specimens. Thanks for the tip - everything I've gotten from him has been great stuff.

Brent is one of the few out there I would even think of buying from, understanding I do not do mail order. The guy is ethical beyond a fault and his trees have never issued a complaint that has surfaced here.

I have come to understand from years of observing this forum in this area; if Brent says he has it in the sizes he claims to have then you can bet he has exactly what he says he has.