A couple more on the bay, Ficus this time

Smoke said:
Something is worth what people are willing to pay for it. It has to have value and it has to be worth the price the seller feels comfortable with letting it go for. Obviously Nathen does not have enough confidence in what he is selling to let it go without a reserve, meaning the price "he" feels it should bring, rather then letting the market set the price.

I have the pleasure of being able to go to George Muranaka's nursery and buy what I want and look at it in 3-D before purchase. George is a very competant seller and his internet prices have gone up in the last few years, I would too. A person can buy things at the nursery for nearly half the price he sells them for on the net. In fact there is a big sale going on now. Buy three at the same price and get a fourth for free. George has met the buying crowd and knows where the moving point is. He can't afford to sit on thousands of dollars of material. He has to turn and burn it or he doesn't put food on the table. A person on ebay selling the odd two or ten trees a year can relist them till thier hearts content.

Right now I am spending about 500.00 a month on antique bottles. Many I have purchased are "buy it now" auctions. If there is something I am interested in and it is relisted two or three times, I will shoot the seller an email and make an offer and about 80 percent of the time they will take it. Most of these guys are in antique malls and pay a premium for a booth, (selling space) plus they have to give as much as 20 percent to the house. Again, they have to turn and burn things, and relist versus cash in the hand is tempting to many.

I suspect the pine will top out around 300.00.
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Correction, I am not confident in eBay. One time of year versus another, gives dramatic differences in price. Remember it only takes 2 bidders to drive up the price, oops I mean one bidder if you have a reserve ;)
 
Smoke said:
I have the pleasure of being able to go to George Muranaka's nursery and buy what I want and look at it in 3-D before purchase. George is a very competant seller and his internet prices have gone up in the last few years, I would too. A person can buy things at the nursery for nearly half the price he sells them for on the net. In fact there is a big sale going on now. Buy three at the same price and get a fourth for free. George has met the buying crowd and knows where the moving point is. He can't afford to sit on thousands of dollars of material. He has to turn and burn it or he doesn't put food on the table. A person on ebay selling the odd two or ten trees a year can relist them till thier hearts content.
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and he knows that ebay is a very expensive marketplace. ebay fees and paypal fees add up quickly. couple those fees with the time required to take and upload decent photos and prepare listings, answer questions and pack and ship trees, and there is no question why he sells for less at his nursery; he can and still net the same or more.
 
edprocoat said:
They are both nice little trees. Since you already answered one question about Ebay, whats the deal with paypal ? I would be far more comfortable sending a check or money order first and allowing it to clear before somebody sent a tree to me than to give my info online at a site like Ebay that may be hacked and get my identity stolen again.

ed
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I used to feel this way as well. Have you considered using a prepaid Visa debit gift card? It's like having an actual credit card, but with no bank attached to it. So you don't have to worry about thieves acquiring your identity. I've purchased numerous items from Ebay, and the internet in general using those.
 
If it were mine I'd cancel the auction. There's no way I'd let a tree like that sell for that low.
 
Don Blackmond said:
I'll let the auctions run the course, and the trees will sell for what they sell for. Two tears in a bucket.....
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Sometimes paying $1-2 for a reserve isn't a bad idea. Like I said eBay can be so hit or miss it's not even funny
 
Don Blackmond said:
I'll be your guinea pig:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/181299821759?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
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So...now that the auction is over, do you think it went for a reasonable price? I have no idea what you would ask for a tree like this at the nursery.

I was very tempted to bid but eventually convinced myself that I simply have too many trees right now. However, I might change my mind if another one or two of these should magically appear...

Chris
 
coh said:
So...now that the auction is over, do you think it went for a reasonable price? I have no idea what you would ask for a tree like this at the nursery.

I was very tempted to bid but eventually convinced myself that I simply have too many trees right now. However, I might change my mind if another one or two of these should magically appear...

Chris
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$100 less than I would have ever voluntarily agreed to accept. That's life. Sometimes you lose.

All I can say is that if the demand is not there, then the supply won't be there either.
 
Well there's more than one way to look at a business deal. I bought this tree, for $100 less than it's "real value". But you know I just peeked in my garage and saw two tridents, a DeShojo, and a black pine, all purchased from Don. If you have bought five trees from someone you will probably buy more.
 
davetree said:
Well there's more than one way to look at a business deal. I bought this tree, for $100 less than it's "real value". But you know I just peeked in my garage and saw two tridents, a DeShojo, and a black pine, all purchased from Don. If you have bought five trees from someone you will probably buy more.
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and I always appreciate your business. Thank you.
 
This is really directed at you guys that hesitate at spending more than $30 at a time for material. I just wonder when people say they can't afford to spend $200 or more on a tree. You really have to take the jump and buy better stuff whether you think you're ready or not. Buying good stock will make you pay attention more to what you have and what your are doing to it. And if it dies, buy another nice tree. It's not rocket science.
 
Smoke said:
I suspect the pine will top out around 300.00.
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Don Blackmond said:
looks like I made a mistake. ebay is killing me right now. hopefully I get some bids or I might as well start giving away trees to avoid paying all the fees.... :mad:
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Don Blackmond said:
$100 less than I would have ever voluntarily agreed to accept. That's life. Sometimes you lose.

All I can say is that if the demand is not there, then the supply won't be there either.
Click to expand...

This tree would have brought more 6 years ago. The economy coupled with new larger prices for healthcare and no jobs for the forseeable future, has spelled trouble for the average bonsai stock market. I suspect those that are willing to pay more than 200.00 for material are much more savvy today than they were 6 years ago. While they are still buying, they may be buying the 5 and 6 hundred dollar material and passing this type of material by.

0 to a hundred is still good, and higher is risky right now. I have seen the same trees for sale from 3017smith for what seems like a year or more.
 
davetree said:
This is really directed at you guys that hesitate at spending more than $30 at a time for material. I just wonder when people say they can't afford to spend $200 or more on a tree. You really have to take the jump and buy better stuff whether you think you're ready or not. Buying good stock will make you pay attention more to what you have and what your are doing to it. And if it dies, buy another nice tree. It's not rocket science.
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I'm not interested in getting into this debate again, as there are many reasons why people are willing/able to spend what they do for trees.

For this particular specimen, I was considering bidding up to about $250, so I wouldn't have won it anyway. $250 is the most I've spent on any individual tree to this point, and I have lost one of those...a painful lesson.

Chris
 
Smoke said:
0 to a hundred is still good, and higher is risky right now.
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If $0 to $100 is all that's good, then that's what people will cultivate and have available. Then people will be wondering why nicer material is in short supply. If no one wants it, or no one is willing to pay enough to support production, then it simply won't be available in meaningful quantities from reputable suppliers. That will cause prices to adjust, and the pendulum will swing the other way. In the meantime, it will set back bonsai in the US. That is my opinion, and its worth about what it would sell for on ebay with no reserve.... :D

Back to the point, the kotobuki was listed no reserve as a test based on the early discussion in this thread. What did it prove? I should have listed it with a reserve; or as a Buy-it-Now with Best Offer option....

It also reaffirms my decision not to sell on ebay. I had stopped selling on ebay for 6 months or so. That marketplace is very expensive and the sales are terrible comparatively speaking. It is my experience that most people who shop on ebay are looking to steal what they buy for pennies on the dollar. Nothing wrong with that. I like a really good deal too. Its just difficult to justify selling on evilbay.
 
I understand what you are saying. From the buyer's point of view...no matter how many photos are posted (or sent if I'm trying to buy off your website), it's still not the same as seeing the tree in person. So I would always expect to pay less for that type of purchase than I would if I could see the tree at the nursery.

Chris
 
Don Blackmond said:
Back to the point, the kotobuki was listed no reserve as a test based on the early discussion in this thread. What did it prove? I should have listed it with a reserve; or as a Buy-it-Now with Best Offer option....
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I don't know what the fees are like with the buy it now with best offer, but I tended to look for these when I bought from there. That way, you don't have to commit to the price from either side. But there's room to move, and that makes it a bit easier to garner interest.

I agree that it takes all kinds of material to make the market work. And commitment from dedicated growers to make the material of quality. But we as buyers must also then be fair in our dealings with these sellers as well, or the market will collapse, and we will be left with mediocre material. That's why it's good once you decide to buy less but better stock.... for everyone.
 
JudyB said:
I don't know what the fees are like with the buy it now with best offer, but I tended to look for these when I bought from there. That way, you don't have to commit to the price from either side. But there's room to move, and that makes it a bit easier to garner interest.

I agree that it takes all kinds of material to make the market work. And commitment from dedicated growers to make the material of quality. But we as buyers must also then be fair in our dealings with these sellers as well, or the market will collapse, and we will be left with mediocre material. That's why it's good once you decide to buy less but better stock.... for everyone.
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To a certain extent I agree with you--we need to support the good growers we have out there. They arent numerous, but they are part of the future. I dont know if the yamadori supply will dry up in the foreseeable future, but after the collecting is done, we will only have nursery material as a source of material for our artistic endeavors. Not to mention, japanese black pine, japanese maple, trident maples etc. etc. yamadori just doesnt exist in america. However, I think we can all agree that material price and availability is crap in America versus Japan. Heck, there is some disparity between the west coast and east cost in America! I typically spend $1,000 a year on stock, and I end up with 2 trees for that amount of money. They are nice quality pre-bonsai stock, but I would be laughed at in Japan. One, there isnt a ton of nice quality stock laying around , which drive up the price of the limited stock, and people obviously dont want to overspend. Its a catch 22. We need more quality stock to drive prices down, and we need more demand to force growers to produce more stock.
 
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