A Beginner's Hello and a Question

[FicusForager]

Hello friends!

My name is Max and I started my bonsai hobby at the beginning of this summer in early June! I started with hours and hours and hours of research as well as talking to someone at my local nursery who has also been in the hobby for a while. The books I have been referencing the most have been by Ken Norman and Herb L. Gustafson as well as many many articles from a variety of sources. Are these two guys well known? And more importantly, if they are well known, is it in a good way or a bad way lol? I also realize that nothing beats actual humans to talk to, which is why I was so excited today when I came across an active forum like this one! (The ones I found previously were years dead). I mainly just want to introduce myself and my trees and ask some questions!

So far I have three trees that are all currently being kept indoors, which yes, I know is a faux pas. BUT withhold your judgment for a moment, two of them are ficuses which seem to actually be okay as full time insiders based on research and other posts on this forum seeing as they are tropical trees and Utah is not a tropical place. I also want to mention that my F. benjamina is already sporting new growth! Which makes me so happy seeing as I (maybe foolishly) repotted him when I got him on June 22nd. I also did not start fertilizing him with Superthrive Bonsai Pro until I saw this new growth as per the literature I read. But he seems happy as a clam and I check his soil everyday to see if he is due for watering (pretty universally read that schedules are bunk and that checking the soil is the way to go) and only water when the top 1/2 inch is dry because I know he likes more humidity. I'm gonna attach a picture below but I do know his soil is wrong (got some bad advice at first) but I do have good Bonsai soil ready to go next repotting season! You'll also see I am not doing any wiring and have only lightly pruned. My main goal is for these little guys to be as healthy and happy as possible and this is a hobby I want to have for 50+ years so I am not in a rush
My F. benjamina (his name is Fiddleford):


Next is my F. benjamina "toolittle" that I only got July 7th. I did repot her in good bonsai soil when I got her and I gave her a humidity tray to keep water in and help boost the humidity around her a little. Check out her super cool root buttress!


Now comes my question part because my third plant... she's not doing so hot. She is a Serissa foetida that I got on June 23rd and this is what she looks like as of today after removing some dead growth and some dead branches:

(Would it be distasteful to make an unintentional Jin joke lol)
This is the part where I ask, would she be happier outside? My priority is her health and if that means I need to figure out an outside set up sooner than I thought, then that's what has to happen. Also, yes I know she is in the "wrong" pot with the wrong soil. But those are some things that can be fixed after I get her healthier. Unless these are messing her up and I need to fix them TO get her healthier? I keep water in the rocks to boost air humidity and let her get slightly drier than my ficuses before watering. I fertilized her for the first time only two days ago because she was having some slight chlorosis. And I think she was getting too much sun based on some brown leaf edges so I moved her only a couple of feet to a slightly shadier spot, good idea? But I just want to know honestly if she is an outside in the summer and inside in the winter gal. Because it does get too cold here to keep her out in the winter, right? I'm doing my best and she still has a lot of her leaves and they seem to be dropping less and less but she just doesn't seem happy so I am beseeching y'all's aid because people seem really nice on here. But also the other option is that she is okay inside and is just a little fussier about moving to a new environment and needs more than three weeks to adjust. I'd love to hear some more experienced thoughts!

A fun fact is that I have never really been interested in plants until I decided to do Bonsai and then I spent hours everyday researching the best way to keep these amazing little beings alive and happy. I am also very not normal about hobbies which has led to a whole collage/scrapbook journal dedicated to the art of bonsai and my specific plants. It also does mean I have this whole chart of every item of my trees' care since I got them:


I also wanted to add a picture of where my plants are right now. For context this is a huge South facing window. I want to have a more dedicated space for them one day but I am in the middle of a move kinda dealio so this is what I have right now. What are y'all's thoughts? Good for my ficuses? Too much sun for my Serissa?


Also, I'd love to have a good outdoor set up one day. Some of my dream plants are Azalea, Mimosa, Japanese Maple, and Wisteria.

Well that is a little snap shot of where I am in my journey right now! I welcome all comments and advice! I mostly wanted to post to introduce myself as part of the community and see how I am doing so far. Thanks in advance!

-Max
(They/Them)

 

[amcoffeegirl]

There’s lots of information out there.
I started with adams art and bonsai blog.
There’s tons of archives here-

It’s a Hard Rock life, for m’trees, it’s a Hard Rock life, for me

Carry on my wayward sons, or trees….or something like that. Here I find myself in a hotel in Hollywood. Florida, not the hotel in California. Where you can’t never leave. I’m at t…

adamaskwhy.com

And here-

My new book is here, The World of Ficus Bonsai | Bonsaihunk's Blog

Jerry has passed away but if you can find the book it’s great! And lots of info on his blog archive also!

 

[Shibui]

Interesting that the trees have all been assigned a gender while the pencil case declares that nonbinary is beautiful.

Ficus are tough trees. They can cope with indoor conditions all year round provided the light and humidity is reasonable. They'll also cope with standard potting soil if you can manage care to suit the soil. Free draining bonsai soil is designed to help trees survive less than great care. Fingers crossed you can manage to manage the soil they are in.

Serissa is another tough customer. All trees are technically outdoor plants and will usually do better outdoors but you should also be able to manage Serissa indoors if you can find the right spot and light levels.
Please be aware that Serissa are known to sulk after changes. They often drop all leaves after moving from one location to another but soon grow a new lot so no need to panic if you see mass leaf drop soon after making major changes to location, watering, etc.

 

[Nera]

For the future advancement and success of your bonsai journey, I think it's better to get into the habit now of keeping trees outdoors.

 

[leatherback]

Welcome to the nuthouse.

are all currently being kept indoors, which yes, I know is a faux pas

Although I am all for growing outside, keep in mind that the species you show here are NOT frost resistant and need to be indoors over winter.
Just a tiny bit of info which the "PUT IT OUTSIDE" chorus on social media always seems to forget to mention.

 

[FicusForager]

There’s lots of information out there.
I started with adams art and bonsai blog.
There’s tons of archives here-

It’s a Hard Rock life, for m’trees, it’s a Hard Rock life, for me

Carry on my wayward sons, or trees….or something like that. Here I find myself in a hotel in Hollywood. Florida, not the hotel in California. Where you can’t never leave. I’m at t…

adamaskwhy.com

And here-

My new book is here, The World of Ficus Bonsai | Bonsaihunk's Blog

Jerry has passed away but if you can find the book it’s great! And lots of info on his blog archive also!

Thank you for your comment! I will absolutely check out both of these resources. It's so neat that there is a whole book out there just for Ficus bonsai!

 

[FicusForager]

Interesting that the trees have all been assigned a gender while the pencil case declares that nonbinary is beautiful.

Haha sharp eye! Trust me I am nonbinary enough for all my trees to withstand a little gender XD

you should also be able to manage Serissa indoors if you can find the right spot and light levels.

Thanks for such a thoughful reply! It's kinda funny, I was hoping that you specifically would see this because I saw on another thread that someone had dubbed you the Serissa expert lol. I'm curious, do you think she should be on the window sill in the picture all day like my Ficuses or do you think she would do better a little further away in less direct light? Or maybe have her on the sill for part of the day and in more shade for another part?

Please be aware that Serissa are known to sulk after changes. They often drop all leaves after moving from one location to another but soon grow a new lot so no need to panic if you see mass leaf drop soon after making major changes to location, watering, etc.

That is good to know that they are a little moody about being moved/changed at all. I also saw on other threads that over watering is a real problem for these guys so I am thinking I should maybe let her get a little drier before watering? Should she dry all the way out or should I wait until about half way down is dry? So far I've been watering when about 3/4 inch is dry.

 

[FicusForager]

Welcome to the nuthouse.

Although I am all for growing outside, keep in mind that the species you show here are NOT frost resistant and need to be indoors over winter.
Just a tiny bit of info which the "PUT IT OUTSIDE" chorus on social media always seems to forget to mention.

Haha thanks for the welcome! Seems just as fun as the other nuthouses I have been in XD

And thanks for this specifically, it's kind of intimidating how immediately people will beat you over the head with the "only outdoors" rhetoric. I really would like to have a good outdoor set up! But that seems like it can be kinda expensive to set up and do it well just based on the pictures of other people's setups.

 

[Jrmcmich]

I will only add about outside that if you can do outside during growing season your trees might gain more vigor to handle the cold season inside. I have A Fukien tea tree that I have kept alive but is angry during winter and often sheds its leaves but once outside does well. That tree might be more finicky than ones you have but just something to consider. Also understand not everyone has an outdoor space especially if renting or similar situation. Welcome and good luck to you. Be careful or you might get many trees

 

[FicusForager]

I will only add about outside that if you can do outside during growing season your trees might gain more vigor to handle the cold season inside. I have A Fukien tea tree that I have kept alive but is angry during winter and often sheds its leaves but once outside does well. That tree might be more finicky than ones you have but just something to consider. Also understand not everyone has an outdoor space especially if renting or similar situation. Welcome and good luck to you.

Thank you for your nice reply! It is definitely taken to heart. And thanks for the welcome!

Be careful or you might get many trees

Oh boy, I am definitely in danger of this. Addictive and not cheap hobby that is so rewarding? I don't stand a chance lol

 

[leatherback]

But that seems like it can be kinda expensive to set up

hm.. this might be a misinterpretation. Nothing special needed normally

 

[FicusForager]

hm.. this might be a misinterpretation. Nothing special needed normally

Oh my goodness, I'm a little dumb. I was picturing those big elaborate hand made wood benches and fancy stands. I just forgot that tables exist lol

Also I was actually just about to message you! I have a quick question for someone as experienced as you if that's okay. I'm wondering what the general attitude is around buying already mature old bonsai. My nursery has some beautiful and likely quite old trees. But I'm wondering how that is viewed in the hobby?

 

[Jrmcmich]

I use cinder blocks with pressure treated wood on top. Pretty cheap and effective

 

[leatherback]

I use cinder blocks with pressure treated wood on top. Pretty cheap and effective

Yup, that is the midpoint between garden tables and big bonsai benches. My first years I have a bunch of brick with 2 old plants on top. Worked fine. And of course.. Pots can stand on the ground too.

I'm wondering what the general attitude is around buying already mature old bonsai. My nursery has some beautiful and likely quite old trees. But I'm wondering how that is viewed in the hobby?

I guess there is a split. Some people say. if you have money burning in your pocket, go ahead and buy what you can afford to loose. Others, myself included, would be of the opinion: Do not buy what you are not able to grow yourself. Learning to keep a bonsai alive is not self-evident for most. So buying a 50 year old tree and killing it in a few months would be a bit of an insult. And even if it stays alive, if you do not have the skills or experience to grow it -in theory- yourself, how do you think you are going to keep it up? In 2 years without the right treatment you can ruin a mature tree.

As and example.. 10-ish years ago in my club I was offered a GORGEOUS deshojo maple. The owner had had it for 40 years and was stopping because of age. She wanted me to take that tree. However, I was travelling lots for work, and unsure whether I could keep it alive. I declined. The president of the club later told me that that was a decent thing to do, and ensure the tree moves to more experienced enthusaists..

 

[FicusForager]

Yup, that is the midpoint between garden tables and big bonsai benches. My first years I have a bunch of brick with 2 old plants on top. Worked fine. And of course.. Pots can stand on the ground too.

Hahah thank you for being so nice, I'm a little scatter brained sometimes and get tunnel vision on the "perfect, prettiest, most awesome option" and forget the simple and easiest answers are right in front of my face!

I guess there is a split. Some people say. if you have money burning in your pocket, go ahead and buy what you can afford to loose. Others, myself included, would be of the opinion: Do not buy what you are not able to grow yourself. Learning to keep a bonsai alive is not self-evident for most. So buying a 50 year old tree and killing it in a few months would be a bit of an insult. And even if it stays alive, if you do not have the skills or experience to grow it -in theory- yourself, how do you think you are going to keep it up? In 2 years without the right treatment you can ruin a mature tree.

Thank you thank you thank you! This is exactly the answer I was looking for! It makes a lot of sense. Like I would just feel awful for being responsible for killing something that would have outlived ME if taken care of properly. As much as I think my research and readings have helped me, I think there is no real substitute for good old fashioned experience and of that I have very little. I think for now I will just do my best with the little guys I have now and try and join the Bonsai club here!

As and example.. 10-ish years ago in my club I was offered a GORGEOUS deshojo maple. The owner had had it for 40 years and was stopping because of age. She wanted me to take that tree. However, I was travelling lots for work, and unsure whether I could keep it alive. I declined. The president of the club later told me that that was a decent thing to do, and ensure the tree moves to more experienced enthusaists..

That is such a cool story, thank you for sharing! I'm hoping that my local club will be as nice as y'all have been and I can start building a community in the hobby.

Also, I was going to ask if I could ask you more questions, but I found your website so I am going to explore there first! If I do end up having more questions though, can I reply to you on this thread or would you prefer direct messages? Or are you busy and would rather just say explore other parts of the forum first? Either way, thank you so much for being so willing to talk to a beginner like me!

 

[Wulfskaar]

I'm wondering what the general attitude is around buying already mature old bonsai. My nursery has some beautiful and likely quite old trees. But I'm wondering how that is viewed in the hobby?

I'm 5 years in and still a noob. I started with seeds, then nursery stock, then cheap bonsai.

I think @leatherback makes a great point that without experience, it's much riskier to get an expensive tree.

Here's my advice:
1. Get cheap nursery stock that you can hack away at. If it dies, no huge loss.
2. Get cheap bonsai for < $100 online or from a bonsai nursery. If it dies, the loss isn't devastating.
3. Once you have a few years under your belt and you've dealt with different problems successfully, and are ready, then by all means, get an older, more developed tree.

Basically, no one will look down on you for attaining nice bonsai. Just make sure you have the mental tools to give your investment the best chance at a long and happy life.

Personally, although it takes many years, I've had a lot of fun with my seed-grown trees, and also with my nursery stock. I get to be more involved in the design and that's fun to me.

Btw, you landed in the BEST online forum for bonsai. The people here are fantastic and always willing to help complete strangers. This forum has helped keep my trees alive and healthy, and has guided me in better directions. It's also a great place to document the progress you make with your trees.

 

[FicusForager]

I'm 5 years in and still a noob. I started with seeds, then nursery stock, then cheap bonsai.

I think @leatherback makes a great point that without experience, it's much riskier to get an expensive tree.

Ah! Thank you so much for this comment! I really value your insight. I like the idea of still being a beginner at something after doing it for 5 years, what a neat hobby we have found ourselves in.

Here's my advice:

1. Get cheap nursery stock that you can hack away at. If it dies, no huge loss.

Alright, I read a lot of stuff that says this but I am a smidge confused. Because I have also read a lot of those "buy a plant and make it a bonsai in one afternoon" type dealios. But what exactly am I looking for at nurseries? Because I think I get there and get overwhelmed because my local nursery has a highly extensive "Bonsai section" with trees like mine that are pictured, to already shaped 10/20 year old trees, to full on chumonos in fancy pots. I would like to do more work on my plants but I don't want to mess with the little guys too much because I want them to be healthy. AND almost all those nursery stock demos are with Junipers which I'm told are not the beginner friendliest and definitely not inside boys. So what kinda stuff should I actually be looking for in this option? And would this also be where the advice to not immediately plant them in a bonsai pot comes in?

2. Get cheap bonsai for < $100 online or from a bonsai nursery. If it dies, the loss isn't devastating.

This is what I have been doing (I think).

3. Once you have a few years under your belt and you've dealt with different problems successfully, and are ready, then by all means, get an older, more developed tree.

Basically, no one will look down on you for attaining nice bonsai. Just make sure you have the mental tools to give your investment the best chance at a long and happy life.

Personally, although it takes many years, I've had a lot of fun with my seed-grown trees, and also with my nursery stock. I get to be more involved in the design and that's fun to me.

Btw, you landed in the BEST online forum for bonsai. The people here are fantastic and always willing to help complete strangers. This forum has helped keep my trees alive and healthy, and has guided me in better directions. It's also a great place to document the progress you make with your trees.

I see what you mean by this one being the best! I already feel so welcomed! Thanks for taking the time to talk to me! I'm excited to have such an enthusiastic space to share my journey in!

 

[Jrmcmich]

Ah! Thank you so much for this comment! I really value your insight. I like the idea of still being a beginner at something after doing it for 5 years, what a neat hobby we have found ourselves in.

Alright, I read a lot of stuff that says this but I am a smidge confused. Because I have also read a lot of those "buy a plant and make it a bonsai in one afternoon" type dealios. But what exactly am I looking for at nurseries? Because I think I get there and get overwhelmed because my local nursery has a highly extensive "Bonsai section" with trees like mine that are pictured, to already shaped 10/20 year old trees, to full on chumonos in fancy pots. I would like to do more work on my plants but I don't want to mess with the little guys too much because I want them to be healthy. AND almost all those nursery stock demos are with Junipers which I'm told are not the beginner friendliest and definitely not inside boys. So what kinda stuff should I actually be looking for in this option? And would this also be where the advice to not immediately plant them in a bonsai pot comes in?

This is what I have been doing (I think).

I see what you mean by this one being the best! I already feel so welcomed! Thanks for taking the time to talk to me! I'm excited to have such an enthusiastic space to share my journey in!

Seems like you can turn a small juniper into some contorted shapes fairly easy which is a first step and fun to try. Think what’s bonsai is at that point is a starting point but most trees develop over time and even a juniper can add dead wood / Shari over time as you need to give trees ample time to recover. I’m only 4th year too so learning and what I have done with any new trees over last 2 years is keep them alive and learn them before trying to do any styling. I also try to repot early spring to know soil it’s in.

 

[rockm]

Best thing I ever did when I started thirty years ago was to get the best material I could afford from reputable dealers. Took me about two years to get enough basic experience to both take a stretch in price range and get familiar enough with who was selling what and the quality of their trees. Their reputations also became evident the more people I talked with. (This was before the internet when person to person communication was a thing. Go to some bonsai shows see actual bonsai find a decent honest seller.
This is one tree I bought three years into bonsai. It’s an oak and I had to learn very quickly what to thirty years later there result

 

[FicusForager]

Seems like you can turn a small juniper into some contorted shapes fairly easy which is a first step and fun to try. Think what’s bonsai is at that point is a starting point but most trees develop over time and even a juniper can add dead wood / Shari over time as you need to give trees ample time to recover. I’m only 4th year too so learning and what I have done with any new trees over last 2 years is keep them alive and learn them before trying to do any styling. I also try to repot early spring to know soil it’s in.

I think that a nursery stock Juniper might indeed be the way to go to try my hand at styling. I'm gonna keep an eye out next time I am at the nursery! That's also helpful too about waiting 2 years. The biggest question on my mind at the moment is when can I do wiring? Like how soon can I do it? Is wiring a recently repotted tree bad? What about my ficus that was repotted recently but is already making new growth, could I wire him now since he is so healthy?