2019-season BC-yamadori mega-thread :D

[rockm]

Pic? I'm still trying to get an idea about ramification & primary-girth over time, hope that doesn't sound like "judgemental" I'm just curious how it's looking **if** you've already got jpg's at-hand on the desktop, otherwise no prob there are plenty of other pics/albums!


Thanks I appreciate that, I'd been seeing zach and bill as the two most-knowledgeable guys re Bald Cypress Bonsai, well, basically on earth....there's two others I know of as 'big dogs' here but they are either not publicly-communicating (so far as I've found!) or maybe even not with us anymore sadly (again, just speculation as I know the names but no idea where they are), and that's vaughn(sp?) banting(sp?) and guy guidry(sp?), though so far as I can see Bill was learning directly from them (or Guidry at least) and while I'm unsure of zach's history it's just incredibly obvious he's got *very* deep experience & knowledge on BC's! It's pretty amazing to be able to talk to them IRL on these message boards being they're the "top pro's" of my favorite activity (the whole bc collection&grow-out is my favorite bonsai-practice so far I think), especially being able to be a bug on the wall - even more actually - at Bill's garden by watching his youtubes!!! Have re-watched them all in the past month (coffee+youtube is a daily ritual for me ) and there's just nothing besides real-life that can beat videos like his, from swamping to styling! I think it'd be splitting hairs & silly-wasteful to even try discerning their relative abilities, though I'd die to see a BonsaiSouth youtube channel (pokes @Zach Smith repeatedly ) to get more info, hell I'd be psyched to see a long-term progression entry for a BC on his site (there's great stuff there, including BC's naturally, but the progress-albums section has no BC's, and prog.albums or developed BC's with-dates are what I'm seeking, want an idea how 5yrs, 10yrs and 20yrs will look especially after hearing enough anecdotes about "BC's don't ramify well"!)

While the following is from @Mellow Mullet 's site or a post here (I'm pretty sure!), I think it's a good example for something I wanted to ask you re timing (I'm trying to find the thread I'd stumbled-into where you were talking seasonal-timing, you'd made a comment specifically about erring to later something like 'if it feels too early, it probably is'), this is timing-of-prune, specifically when to hard-prune a leader-primary? I struggle with this on all of my specimen garden-wide, I started out moronically trimming everything way too often but now that I'm holding-off I want to get an idea *when* the right time is for a new primary's hard-pruning! So, what do you think of his timing here:
View attachment 228232
I guess I'd wager that it's a smidge too-early ('smidge' isn't a word, go figure..), I've been putting a ton of thought into this as I see the primaries' shape&girth as being pretty-darn-vital to the final specimen (a duh!) so it's often on-mind, I've been thinking that a primary should be allowed to run free (or w/ the most minimal cuts if necessary for practical reasons ie spacing) until it's at least 85% of its final intended-girth, what do you think about that? Very very interested to hear your thoughts here as it's not 'timing of year' but timing for the specimen's 'development phase', also gg find that thread to see if you've updated there as I'm dead-center of spring-budding here, hell I just noticed yesterday that one of my more recently-collected BC's had >10 buds that'd broken the skin (and both Maples are budding) so I'm counting now as "ideal" for collection, and for styling (if applicable obviously!) and re-potting BC's, for ficus it's already time / too-late as I've got a good fist-ful of leaves on mine that grew this past week that're all coming off, need to do that asap before I waste any more resources! And Crapes are just waking up, most have some spring-growth so it seems pretty ideal to work them now as well

Bad pic, but only one I can find at the moment.

 

[Mellow Mullet]

Pic? I'm still trying to get an idea about ramification & primary-girth over time, hope that doesn't sound like "judgemental" I'm just curious how it's looking **if** you've already got jpg's at-hand on the desktop, otherwise no prob there are plenty of other pics/albums!


Thanks I appreciate that, I'd been seeing zach and bill as the two most-knowledgeable guys re Bald Cypress Bonsai, well, basically on earth....there's two others I know of as 'big dogs' here but they are either not publicly-communicating (so far as I've found!) or maybe even not with us anymore sadly (again, just speculation as I know the names but no idea where they are), and that's vaughn(sp?) banting(sp?) and guy guidry(sp?), though so far as I can see Bill was learning directly from them (or Guidry at least) and while I'm unsure of zach's history it's just incredibly obvious he's got *very* deep experience & knowledge on BC's! It's pretty amazing to be able to talk to them IRL on these message boards being they're the "top pro's" of my favorite activity (the whole bc collection&grow-out is my favorite bonsai-practice so far I think), especially being able to be a bug on the wall - even more actually - at Bill's garden by watching his youtubes!!! Have re-watched them all in the past month (coffee+youtube is a daily ritual for me ) and there's just nothing besides real-life that can beat videos like his, from swamping to styling! I think it'd be splitting hairs & silly-wasteful to even try discerning their relative abilities, though I'd die to see a BonsaiSouth youtube channel (pokes @Zach Smith repeatedly ) to get more info, hell I'd be psyched to see a long-term progression entry for a BC on his site (there's great stuff there, including BC's naturally, but the progress-albums section has no BC's, and prog.albums or developed BC's with-dates are what I'm seeking, want an idea how 5yrs, 10yrs and 20yrs will look especially after hearing enough anecdotes about "BC's don't ramify well"!)

While the following is from @Mellow Mullet 's site or a post here (I'm pretty sure!), I think it's a good example for something I wanted to ask you re timing (I'm trying to find the thread I'd stumbled-into where you were talking seasonal-timing, you'd made a comment specifically about erring to later something like 'if it feels too early, it probably is'), this is timing-of-prune, specifically when to hard-prune a leader-primary? I struggle with this on all of my specimen garden-wide, I started out moronically trimming everything way too often but now that I'm holding-off I want to get an idea *when* the right time is for a new primary's hard-pruning! So, what do you think of his timing here:
View attachment 228232
I guess I'd wager that it's a smidge too-early ('smidge' isn't a word, go figure..), I've been putting a ton of thought into this as I see the primaries' shape&girth as being pretty-darn-vital to the final specimen (a duh!) so it's often on-mind, I've been thinking that a primary should be allowed to run free (or w/ the most minimal cuts if necessary for practical reasons ie spacing) until it's at least 85% of its final intended-girth, what do you think about that? Very very interested to hear your thoughts here as it's not 'timing of year' but timing for the specimen's 'development phase', also gg find that thread to see if you've updated there as I'm dead-center of spring-budding here, hell I just noticed yesterday that one of my more recently-collected BC's had >10 buds that'd broken the skin (and both Maples are budding) so I'm counting now as "ideal" for collection, and for styling (if applicable obviously!) and re-potting BC's, for ficus it's already time / too-late as I've got a good fist-ful of leaves on mine that grew this past week that're all coming off, need to do that asap before I waste any more resources! And Crapes are just waking up, most have some spring-growth so it seems pretty ideal to work them now as well

Actually, if you had looked closer and read the print ( http://www.heartofdixiebonsai.com/tree-progressions/bald-cypress/bald-cypress-i ), you would see that the new leader had almost completely healed the flat chop in less that one year. The wound that you see above is where I carved taper into the chop in the Spring of the following year to prepare it for another season of growth (a little late, I did not get around to it the previous year). The sealant I use is latex outdoor (exterior) caulk, once it dries (an hour or so), it is waterproof and does not come off unless you peel it off. Or, you can pay the ransom and buy the cut sealant from Japan at 16$ for a small tube vs 3$ for a tube of caulk. Don't use silicone (the pure stuff) it contains acetic acid and sometimes other compounds and might not be good for the tree.

As for timing, if I had not chopped it when I did, the new leader would have grown in the next couple of months to the same size as what was previously cut off, making the initial chop pointless. Why do you think it was too early and when would you have chopped it, or done differently?

Smidge is actually a word, it is another less commonly used form of the word "smidgen".

I really think that you are over thinking it all. When building trunks, just think of it as a stack of cylinders, each one a little shorter and smaller in diameter than the other, you just keep chopping until you get the number cylinders that you need for the desired height and taper of your design. When you chop is dictated by how fast the tree grows. The same concept can be applied when building branches.

 

[SU2]

View attachment 228249

Bad pic, but only one I can find at the moment.

Meh, "bad" is relative and with the resolution these days I'm more than satisfied w/ quality - and thanks, that thing is beautiful, unsure if I've seen one of your trees but it's so in-line with what I was expecting (just..."proper"!) Seeing that makes me think I shouldn't be trying to chop-off the leader I grew last year on my tall one:


How long did you spend growing that out in a larger container to get that apex? Or am I being presumptuous and you've just had oversized bonsai-pots + time? Very beautiful canopy there, god I love this specie so much I wish I'd found them sooner Yours is so lush does it get full sun? Looks like a coarse mix, is it straight "normal bonsai substrate+drainage" or do you have anything finer mixed-in, or restricted drainage at all? Sorry for all the Q's I just like to know about mature BC's like this guy

 

[rockm]

Meh, "bad" is relative and with the resolution these days I'm more than satisfied w/ quality - and thanks, that thing is beautiful, unsure if I've seen one of your trees but it's so in-line with what I was expecting (just..."proper"!) Seeing that makes me think I shouldn't be trying to chop-off the leader I grew last year on my tall one:
View attachment 228606

How long did you spend growing that out in a larger container to get that apex? Or am I being presumptuous and you've just had oversized bonsai-pots + time? Very beautiful canopy there, god I love this specie so much I wish I'd found them sooner Yours is so lush does it get full sun? Looks like a coarse mix, is it straight "normal bonsai substrate+drainage" or do you have anything finer mixed-in, or restricted drainage at all? Sorry for all the Q's I just like to know about mature BC's like this guy

The tree has had three successive trunk chops over the last twenty years or so. All growth has been in a containers--which is why it's taken that long. First leader was allowed to grow eight or nine feet, then chopped to three inches...

The leader on yours--if you're planning on using the thickest shoot--is going to complicate the "finished tree." It's out of character with the drastic sideways movement. that exaggeration will get worse with time. I'd use the smaller straighter one just below the curvy one...

 

[Cajunrider]

Jesus 20" is insane!!! Going to have to google re 'land subsidence' but that's an insane rise! And am surprised I'd never heard that before re young BC's needing time before tolerating flooding, so it's fair to say that natural BC propagation occurs at water's-edge and never in fully-flooded areas right? Can see that, just never heard it and think it's neat!

And...45min?!? Dayumn That's awesome, I think my best is closer to 1.5hrs if I were to try and guess it (haven't done a single-tree collection this year just (2) multi-tree trips, and last year was a whole other circumstance so it'd be 3-4x longer), 15-25min minimum at the swamp to get into it and find something in the ~1-2' waters, 15min of prepping the roots at home and another 20min rummaging around through substrates & containers to get it potted-up!!

Do you happen to have albums? Would love to see some of your older ones!! Oh and was hoping to ask this to veteran BC-hunters like you / @BillsBayou / @Zach Smith - do you use the hose on its roots when prepping for container? I've always used the hose to clean roots, in fact I'd almost want to say I find it pretty essential if I'm to confidently pot-up something w/o fear of substantial quantities of dead bio-mass going in amongst the roots, but yesterday I was re-reading a section of Harry Harrington's ebook (hmm, maybe just the bootleg is ebook...in any case!) and he'd advised against this- very very curious what you guys' thoughts on this are!! If I didn't have the hose there's no way I could get all the crap out, I mean when I get home with a BC there's about as many roots that don't belong to the specimen as there are roots that do, I use my fingers & the hose to gently go through all the tangles & twists, I have a root-rake and root-hook and use neither, the hose & my fingers have always felt optimal (til I read Harry's advisement against it!)

Yep 20" in some area because we built levees and lead all the Mississippi silt to sea instead of replenishing the eroded soil along the coastline in Louisiana. I lost 10 ft of my land in the last 10 year. Soon I will have to build a seawall to protect my house.
A lot of Cajun are now trying to protect the land. Some friends of mine have planted 30,000 trees in the past 5 years trying to slow dow the land loss. In my little 6 acres of land, I've planted 40 palms and 120 trees in the last two years. The trees I planted (Bald cypress, Pecan, green ash, and green island palm) were chosen because of their ability to tolerate wet feet. I also mow less and allow the grass to be higher to lessen the soil washout. How bad is the soil wash out you ask? Well two years ago I bought 40 tandem truck load of dirt just to build my house pad back to the level it was in 2004. Believe me, down here in Louisiana, dirt is not cheap.

BTW it is true that juvenile BC cannot tolerate very wet feet. I think 1/4" of water depth per 1" of trunk up to 18" inch of water. Beyond 18" the BCs stop growing and start to decline. That's what I see in all the swamp around me.

 

[SU2]

I've got a handful (putting it lightly!) of other things I'm hoping to ask in the near future but *just* got this guy last night on an impulse swamping trip (was nearby the swamp and had an hour, decided to go for one!) and while cutting I was sure I would be removing the first primaries in-swamp but never did and even upon getting it home I didn't want to remove them, they just seem 'right' IE there's 3 branches with ~3/4th's-season's girth coming right from where a proper apex-start on the trunk could be, I couldn't remove them (or the nub that's roughly at their level), but I know @BillsBayou and John Geanangel (wherever he is - need to read-up on what happened there, he seems very talented) both advise that, if left on, branches/nubs will lead to most(all?) of the stock's back-budding to occur at those sites at the expense of anywhere else....I could just do a pure flat-top but I'd like lower branches...can't help wonder if, on 2-5yr established BC bonsai, if after heavy pruning you still get new back-budding along the trunk, or if you only get epicormic budding on the trunk after a full chop? Thanks for any thoughts on this, as well as any thoughts on an idea I've been wrestling with- I collected a good handful of taller-than-wanted BC's, doing so consciously to boost survival%, but still unsure just how to treat those unwanted tops....best current ideas are to cover with dark fabric (deny them the ability to grow while retaining their nutes/insulation/possible-future-deadwood), to remove/rub buds from that area as they grow, or to just wait til they're budding well enough below and "make the final trunk-line" mid-season once I know they're established/safe (I've actually gone and cut one of the most overly-tall ones back, although that was more to instigate a new wound because it's one of my 3 deeply-fissured trunks and I'm starting to wonder if I'll ever get one of those types to back-bud, have seen some pics of them so I know it's possible but have never had luck and I'm past 10 collections in my life now :/ )

New 3-branched guy:





I should note this is my first 'exposed roots' BC, I usually sink them to at least 1/3 of their highest buttressing, think I've been erring in that way and am already backing-down some substrate-levels, both on this year's material and last's!! Was surprised at the first one (of two..) I did from last year, forgot the spread it had

 

[SU2]

Well, I guess I expected a BC that had branches at its apex upon collection to be more likely to survive, yet it's the SOLE swamp-tree I've collected that didn't make it (well, that didn't bud yet....IME, if it buds quickly, it survives) Gotta say I'm very happy with myself, 11 out of 12 specimen are budding (most are BC's, some Maples, and a couple unknown species - actually my largest specimen is an unknown!!!)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'd be doing a disservice not to link Bill's FANTASTIC new video, so much good stuff in there!!! Can't say I ever saw someone so bold w/ their reciprocating saw (he was plunging that thing like 1/4th into the water, very cool!!!), also must say I'm jealous, not of Bill getting to go on the trip, but how the property owner just gets to personally own sooo much nature that's now private-land, hate to say but I couldn't stop wondering if the landowner was a great worker who eventually bought the place, or if it was gifted to / passed down from his family (suspect, and hate, the latter - but that's life!) Anyways, as always, Bill's stuff is just top-notch and deserves multiple watches IMO!!!!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Zach posted an awesome walk-through of some 2019 collecting *here* on his site, I can't express how badly I'd love to go swamping with one of these pro's I mean videos & article walk-throughs are fantastic and I just devour (repeatedly ;P ) such content but damn it must be awesome to be the ones "helping out" (I just cannot imagine that people like Bill & Zach aren't able to summon any # of local, eager acolytes who'd happily do the heavy-lifting during a swamp trip, I know if I lived near them I sure as hell would lol!)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So I've been thinking about my BC's and keep hitting dead-ends when trying to get some Q's answered, hoping that by tagging some of the resident professionals here I may be able to get answers, so @BillsBayou , @Zach Smith , @Mellow Mullet , @rockm , gah I'm forgetting names now but hopefully you guys can help with these ones!

1 - How likely are knees to die-off? I see reference to "if the knee survives", the implication being that BC's survive but the knee doesn't... Any & everything people could tell me about this, from how common it is to anything I may be able to do to try and prevent it, would be incredibly appreciated!!

2 - What's better for watering: My hard, 8pH tap-water, or the same water brought to a proper pH with "pH Down"? The pH-Down is phosphoric-acid based, so adds a good deal of P to the tree, and when my rain-barrels are empty I constantly find myself wondering whether it's better to add or withhold the phos.acid from my tap-water before watering them!

3 - Soil levels....I make my substrate too-high on collected trees to help ensure they 'take' to their container, and then (ideally!) I slowly remove the excess through the year so I can show the proper soil//trunk interfacing, however when re-potting last-year's I realized I'd never gone nearly as low as I should have, so I want to be more on-top of it this year - if I have a BC w/ awesome nebari, sprouting 20+ lil 1-->4" shoots, is it acceptable then to start removing the excessive substrate-height? Would you do it all in one shot or just bit-by-bit?

4 - **Most Important** to me is how to manage branches, for instance there's the extremes of seeing an untouched bush at 12mo into life-in-pot, then there's specimen where, halfway through year one, you've already selected down to your primaries....I don't like either extreme TBH but want to understand this topic much better than I do now, to understand the reasons & ramifications of the difference between someone like Bill having a bush at 1yr in versus someone like Zach having a 6mo old specimen that's already had its primaries selected...I know that this latter approach, removing extra/redundant branches, helps a good deal in fattening-up the remaining branches so I've basically just been removing shoots if they're redundant *and* it's something like removing 1-3 lil shoots from something that's vigorously pushing >30 shoots, I'll remove ones that are too-far down on most specimen although, on some of my too-tall BC's (top will be cut or deadwood/jin), I've been removing the top buds as they form to force all the growth in the middle of the trunking! [edited-in/addendum: I'm going through pics and seeing one of my BC's from last year when it was 6mo old, thing was just a bush, I remember I'd noticed at that time that I had a bush when Zach's pic showed just several branches, and I quickly got to removing excessive # shoots but it was too-late in terms of scarring, have bulges all over that one's trunk, this year my default- til I hear otherwise!- is to simply remove a shoot here, a shoot there, casually and consistently through the season, always being aware of vigor, so I can end the season with maybe 1/3rd more primaries than I'd want in 'the final' without having to do "a session" of pruning to any specimen, I dislike the idea of shocking them like that and the scarring on BC's is just insane - there's 2 exceptions, I put both of my knee'd BC's in-ground instead of containers this season, I had intended to collect more and put them in-ground (there's tiles to prevent too-strong vertical rooting), the idea being to pot-up the ~80% that survived mid-season by doing the entirety of their pruning then at the time of root-disturbance, and would be doing this as delicately as possible ie not root-pruning of course just carefully lifting them and getting them out-of-ground, I really should've waited til I ran out of pots before starting in-grounds!!]

[5- I've gotta ask, if anyone has a moment to PM me a quick summary of "the Geanangel drama" I'd be real curious to know what'd happened, the guy's videos are really good but seems something happened that has him & the general community at odds, am incredibly curious what's up with that, hate the idea of someone being "outcast" from the main group(s) in the community and can't stop wondering why when I watch his [outstanding] youtubes]


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Thanks a ton for any help with those Q's, and happy gardening everyone!!! Oh and I wanted to share pics, right now out of 12 total collected swamp-trees I've got 10 that've broken/budded, 1 that's showing swells (it's my most-recent collection) and another I fear can't push-through its deeply-fissured bark, the way these pics are shot is "full tree pic, close-up of its buds pic" FYI, and no I have no idea what the non-BC, non-Maple yamma's here are, would love to hear guesses I figure it's kind of irrelevant at this point as "it is what it is" (god I hate that phrase) and they're here, collected & growing, so they'll be worked for all they're worth regardless of species!!
[note- it's clipping to 10 pics-per-post so will be double-posting the rest ]

 

[SU2]

Aaand the rest of the pics in the same order ("tree pic, tree's-buds close-up pic")

 

[SU2]

Aaaaaaaaaaand, god it feels kinda like cheating but I hate starting a new BC thread when I'm also bumping this one, so will just throw this in: I recently setup last year's (2) BC's for 2019 and was hoping for thoughts on how I did the top of my bigger one, I basically hard-pruned every side-primary, half-pruned the top-most primary(future flat-top pad), and left only the 2nd top-primary (2nd of 2 total) un-pruned so that it would fatten-up a bit more relative to the top-most primary (I also carved-out the top so that roll-over can begin properly, and I re-drilled an anchor-point in the wound to crank-down the top-most primary to pull it to the other side in the direction of the flat-top-pad it'll eventually 'feed'/lead-to!) [this is the same one I had a pic of fully un-pruned in post#40 ]

First I did some pruning and then carved (4" chainsaw disc to start, 1/4" shanked ball-nose rasp bit to finish, didn't burnish or apply LS but will if anyone advises, was too afraid of hurting it as I did nick the cambium (intentionally) all around the inner-perimeter where I'd made the recession for the wounding to roll:


Then I setup the absolute strongest anchor I could think of with on-hand stuff (used a diesel tap-con screw, did a pilot hole of just ~60% screw-width), used copper instead of usual zip-ties just for aesthetics lol (felt so wasteful!), I then carved a pretty serious groove into the top-half of the branch and put wire-insulation over the notching before using that 8g wire to crank it down into place


I always do work before re-pot since they're so firm when root-bound, anyway I then re-potted it (with a substantial root-prune to encourage a tight root-mass, especially considering it was getting up-potted!)
Ready for potting:


Aaaand all done! Instead of running another 2 rounds of wire and *still* not getting that branch down, I simply hung a rock ;P I could've setup guy-wiring but didn't have a good point to anchor from and hate the idea of anchoring from the trunk, seems like it's a bad idea IMO it's like a minor strangulation/tourniquetting, heck I take care when collecting or moving trees to be gentle to the bark to baby the cambium beneath!!!


Any & all feedback on how I approached this guy would be hugely appreciated, also if I'm being dumb in not having treated that carving yet I'm ready to paste, burnish or apply LS I just fear hurting it so holding-off til I hear an OK. I drilled a ton of drainage-holes, including perched-table-evap holes in the sides, used pea-gravel for the bottom 1/2", then made a dense-but-aerated mixture (ie small average-particle-size, but a very strong / thorough rinsing to ensure no 'fines' in the mix that'd hurt total air-porosity in the media), it's got all the usual suspects of a bonsai-mix with added coir & compost

 

[Mellow Mullet]

Well, I guess I expected a BC that had branches at its apex upon collection to be more likely to survive, yet it's the SOLE swamp-tree I've collected that didn't make it (well, that didn't bud yet....IME, if it buds quickly, it survives) Gotta say I'm very happy with myself, 11 out of 12 specimen are budding (most are BC's, some Maples, and a couple unknown species - actually my largest specimen is an unknown!!!)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'd be doing a disservice not to link Bill's FANTASTIC new video, so much good stuff in there!!! Can't say I ever saw someone so bold w/ their reciprocating saw (he was plunging that thing like 1/4th into the water, very cool!!!), also must say I'm jealous, not of Bill getting to go on the trip, but how the property owner just gets to personally own sooo much nature that's now private-land, hate to say but I couldn't stop wondering if the landowner was a great worker who eventually bought the place, or if it was gifted to / passed down from his family (suspect, and hate, the latter - but that's life!) Anyways, as always, Bill's stuff is just top-notch and deserves multiple watches IMO!!!!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Zach posted an awesome walk-through of some 2019 collecting *here* on his site, I can't express how badly I'd love to go swamping with one of these pro's I mean videos & article walk-throughs are fantastic and I just devour (repeatedly ;P ) such content but damn it must be awesome to be the ones "helping out" (I just cannot imagine that people like Bill & Zach aren't able to summon any # of local, eager acolytes who'd happily do the heavy-lifting during a swamp trip, I know if I lived near them I sure as hell would lol!)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So I've been thinking about my BC's and keep hitting dead-ends when trying to get some Q's answered, hoping that by tagging some of the resident professionals here I may be able to get answers, so @BillsBayou , @Zach Smith , @Mellow Mullet , @rockm , gah I'm forgetting names now but hopefully you guys can help with these ones!

1 - How likely are knees to die-off? I see reference to "if the knee survives", the implication being that BC's survive but the knee doesn't... Any & everything people could tell me about this, from how common it is to anything I may be able to do to try and prevent it, would be incredibly appreciated!!

2 - What's better for watering: My hard, 8pH tap-water, or the same water brought to a proper pH with "pH Down"? The pH-Down is phosphoric-acid based, so adds a good deal of P to the tree, and when my rain-barrels are empty I constantly find myself wondering whether it's better to add or withhold the phos.acid from my tap-water before watering them!

3 - Soil levels....I make my substrate too-high on collected trees to help ensure they 'take' to their container, and then (ideally!) I slowly remove the excess through the year so I can show the proper soil//trunk interfacing, however when re-potting last-year's I realized I'd never gone nearly as low as I should have, so I want to be more on-top of it this year - if I have a BC w/ awesome nebari, sprouting 20+ lil 1-->4" shoots, is it acceptable then to start removing the excessive substrate-height? Would you do it all in one shot or just bit-by-bit?

4 - **Most Important** to me is how to manage branches, for instance there's the extremes of seeing an untouched bush at 12mo into life-in-pot, then there's specimen where, halfway through year one, you've already selected down to your primaries....I don't like either extreme TBH but want to understand this topic much better than I do now, to understand the reasons & ramifications of the difference between someone like Bill having a bush at 1yr in versus someone like Zach having a 6mo old specimen that's already had its primaries selected...I know that this latter approach, removing extra/redundant branches, helps a good deal in fattening-up the remaining branches so I've basically just been removing shoots if they're redundant *and* it's something like removing 1-3 lil shoots from something that's vigorously pushing >30 shoots, I'll remove ones that are too-far down on most specimen although, on some of my too-tall BC's (top will be cut or deadwood/jin), I've been removing the top buds as they form to force all the growth in the middle of the trunking! [edited-in/addendum: I'm going through pics and seeing one of my BC's from last year when it was 6mo old, thing was just a bush, I remember I'd noticed at that time that I had a bush when Zach's pic showed just several branches, and I quickly got to removing excessive # shoots but it was too-late in terms of scarring, have bulges all over that one's trunk, this year my default- til I hear otherwise!- is to simply remove a shoot here, a shoot there, casually and consistently through the season, always being aware of vigor, so I can end the season with maybe 1/3rd more primaries than I'd want in 'the final' without having to do "a session" of pruning to any specimen, I dislike the idea of shocking them like that and the scarring on BC's is just insane - there's 2 exceptions, I put both of my knee'd BC's in-ground instead of containers this season, I had intended to collect more and put them in-ground (there's tiles to prevent too-strong vertical rooting), the idea being to pot-up the ~80% that survived mid-season by doing the entirety of their pruning then at the time of root-disturbance, and would be doing this as delicately as possible ie not root-pruning of course just carefully lifting them and getting them out-of-ground, I really should've waited til I ran out of pots before starting in-grounds!!]

[5- I've gotta ask, if anyone has a moment to PM me a quick summary of "the Geanangel drama" I'd be real curious to know what'd happened, the guy's videos are really good but seems something happened that has him & the general community at odds, am incredibly curious what's up with that, hate the idea of someone being "outcast" from the main group(s) in the community and can't stop wondering why when I watch his [outstanding] youtubes]


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Thanks a ton for any help with those Q's, and happy gardening everyone!!! Oh and I wanted to share pics, right now out of 12 total collected swamp-trees I've got 10 that've broken/budded, 1 that's showing swells (it's my most-recent collection) and another I fear can't push-through its deeply-fissured bark, the way these pics are shot is "full tree pic, close-up of its buds pic" FYI, and no I have no idea what the non-BC, non-Maple yamma's here are, would love to hear guesses I figure it's kind of irrelevant at this point as "it is what it is" (god I hate that phrase) and they're here, collected & growing, so they'll be worked for all they're worth regardless of species!!
[note- it's clipping to 10 pics-per-post so will be double-posting the rest ]
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1 - I don't know what you mean by likely, but if you sever it from the main trunk (the root that attaches it to the trunk) or if you cut too much of that same root off on the other side, it has a good chance of dying. I don't know how this would apply to collected trees, just has been my experience with my trees - all of which have been grown form seed.

2 - Just make sure it has water, and plenty of it, don't worry about pH. Unless you have access to a lab, you are not gonna be able to measure it (pH) accurately any way. Most tap water has a lot of buffers in it to keep the ph stable so unless you plan on buying phosphoric acid by the drum along a lab quality ph meter and learn how to calibrate it - you are just "spitting in the wind". People worry about pH too much when they should just be worrying about proper watering (amount of water the tree needs), bc are easy, just submerge them. A controversial topic, almost as bad as soil or fertilizer, but it works and I have ten to twenty years of progress showing that it does. But there will be those who claim the same that don't dunk them.

3 - Very subjective, I expose as much of the flare at the base that is possible. Don't know about collected trees but if I were to collect one, I would plant it the same way and use spaghnum moss on top of the soil to keep the root zone moist at all times.

4 - Not gonna waste time typing a response to this, no one listens to what I have to say on this topic. Not trying to be "assy", just honest.

5 - I don't think it is a "rift or outcast" thing, but more of a time thing. If you follow him on FB, he has been very busy with improvements to his home and bonsai garden. He still pops up here from time to time and if you tag him in a thread, he usually responds.

Hope it Helps,

John

 

[Joe Dupre']

Whew! Lots of stuff. Just a couple of observations. The last pic of the BC in the red tub...... It might be better to go wider instead of deeper in container size. Too deep and you're subject to get really big, straight down roots that will only have to be cut severely when the tree goes into a pot.

The "prune, wire , remove branches, or let grow" issue. This year I let a BC go completely wild and put on every bit of foliage that it wanted to. It seems that worked out really well. Lots of branches to pick from and a really healthy tree. Thumbs up from me!

Fines in BC soil........ I put all my screenings, old bonsai soil and soil from nursery plants in a big tote and add about the same amount of good potting soil to it and mix. Cypress LOVE that mixture. Straight bonsai soil works, but I feel it actually slows the tree down a bit. Not a "bad" way to do it, just maybe not the best for really vigorous growth.


Approximately nine months of growth from a slick stump in my mix. Not changing anytime soon! I had to trim a bit so I could get around in the garden. LOL.

 

[Mellow Mullet]

Aaaand all done! Instead of running another 2 rounds of wire and *still* not getting that branch down, I simply hung a rock ;P I could've setup guy-wiring but didn't have a good point to anchor from and hate the idea of anchoring from the trunk, seems like it's a bad idea IMO it's like a minor strangulation/tourniquetting, heck I take care when collecting or moving trees to be gentle to the bark to baby the cambium beneath!!!
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I have had luck moving larger branches on Bc by cutting a notch 3/4 of the way through the under side of the branch and then using a guy wire to anchor the branch down to close the gap. It is easy to find an anchor point on bc, you have the whole trunk. just by some small eye bolts, drill a small hole in the trunk where you want to anchor, screw in the eye bolt, and then attach your guy wire. When the branch is set, you can remove the eye and the small hole will heal over in a summer's time. When I say eye bolt, I am talking about the small ones with the wood screw type threads. Not sure about the rock method, but if you like it, keep on...

 

[RobertB]

I have had luck moving larger branches on Bc by cutting a notch 3/4 of the way through the under side of the branch and then using a guy wire to anchor the branch down to close the gap. It is easy to find an anchor point on bc, you have the whole trunk. just by some small eye bolts, drill a small hole in the trunk where you want to anchor, screw in the eye bolt, and then attach your guy wire. When the branch is set, you can remove the eye and the small hole will heal over in a summer's time. When I say eye bolt, I am talking about the small ones with the wood screw type threads. Not sure about the rock method, but if you like it, keep on...

John, I have tried this on other trees without much sucess. How long would you say for the notch to heal and the branch be rigid again?

 

[Mellow Mullet]

John, I have tried this on other trees without much sucess. How long would you say for the notch to heal and the branch be rigid again?

On bald cypress and ficus, in one season the wound healed over. I usually leave the guy wire on for two seasons. I haven't tried it on anything else. Hey, you need to come over, I have a few things I need to part with.

 

[RobertB]

On bald cypress and ficus, in one season the wound healed over. I usually leave the guy wire on for two seasons. I haven't tried it on anything else. Hey, you need to come over, I have a few things I need to part with.

I would definitely like too. I am completely full now (in fact i've been culling things myself) Wow, almost all the cuttings you gave me last year rooted. My JBP seedlings and JM seedlings have me very full. Want some healthy JBP? They grow crazy here? I am very interested in working with more quince and ume. I finally got an ume and might have successfully started some cuttings on over the winter. Too early to go crazy over but they are leafing out.

 

[Zach Smith]

Well, I guess I expected a BC that had branches at its apex upon collection to be more likely to survive, yet it's the SOLE swamp-tree I've collected that didn't make it (well, that didn't bud yet....IME, if it buds quickly, it survives) Gotta say I'm very happy with myself, 11 out of 12 specimen are budding (most are BC's, some Maples, and a couple unknown species - actually my largest specimen is an unknown!!!)

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I'd be doing a disservice not to link Bill's FANTASTIC new video, so much good stuff in there!!! Can't say I ever saw someone so bold w/ their reciprocating saw (he was plunging that thing like 1/4th into the water, very cool!!!), also must say I'm jealous, not of Bill getting to go on the trip, but how the property owner just gets to personally own sooo much nature that's now private-land, hate to say but I couldn't stop wondering if the landowner was a great worker who eventually bought the place, or if it was gifted to / passed down from his family (suspect, and hate, the latter - but that's life!) Anyways, as always, Bill's stuff is just top-notch and deserves multiple watches IMO!!!!

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Zach posted an awesome walk-through of some 2019 collecting *here* on his site, I can't express how badly I'd love to go swamping with one of these pro's I mean videos & article walk-throughs are fantastic and I just devour (repeatedly ;P ) such content but damn it must be awesome to be the ones "helping out" (I just cannot imagine that people like Bill & Zach aren't able to summon any # of local, eager acolytes who'd happily do the heavy-lifting during a swamp trip, I know if I lived near them I sure as hell would lol!)

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So I've been thinking about my BC's and keep hitting dead-ends when trying to get some Q's answered, hoping that by tagging some of the resident professionals here I may be able to get answers, so @BillsBayou , @Zach Smith , @Mellow Mullet , @rockm , gah I'm forgetting names now but hopefully you guys can help with these ones!

1 - How likely are knees to die-off? Any answer to this would be unscientific unless the respondent had a decent enough sample size. If the knee is an integral part of the existing buttressing roots and you've done proper after-care, very unlikely it won't make it. I had one last year with a great knee on a large radial side root that sprouted feeders from the chopped end of the side root during the growing season. Success! I've got one now that has a genuine knee off the tree, don't know yet.

2 - What's better for watering: My hard, 8pH tap-water, or the same water brought to a proper pH with "pH Down"? The pH-Down is phosphoric-acid based, so adds a good deal of P to the tree, and when my rain-barrels are empty I constantly find myself wondering whether it's better to add or withhold the phos.acid from my tap-water before watering them! You worry too much. Unless you go through about a four- to six-week drought, water when it doesn't rain and don't worry about it. Your BCs won't care.

3 - Soil levels....I make my substrate too-high on collected trees to help ensure they 'take' to their container, and then (ideally!) I slowly remove the excess through the year so I can show the proper soil//trunk interfacing, however when re-potting last-year's I realized I'd never gone nearly as low as I should have, so I want to be more on-top of it this year - if I have a BC w/ awesome nebari, sprouting 20+ lil 1-->4" shoots, is it acceptable then to start removing the excessive substrate-height? Would you do it all in one shot or just bit-by-bit? I wouldn't lower the soil level for the first year. What's the rush?

4 - **Most Important** to me is how to manage branches, You do this like you're training a deciduous bonsai. Any deciduous bonsai. They grow new branches from adventitious buds, you wire them into position, you manage the energy so as to maintain balance in the branch structure, you prune them back to encourage ramification, and so on. You build an apex. BC is somewhat different in its apical dominance, but the principle is no different.

5- No clue