2015 Bonsai Nut Spring Box Store Challenge Kickoff

[wireme]

The local nursery up here will be stocked up by may 1st I'm sure. Non-coniferous evergreens I'm not so sure, some scraggly little kinnikinnick and Oregon grape plants anyways, I'll throw my hat in with whatever I can find.

 

[wireme]

I'd say the odds of finding material for this one are almost 100% higher than finding a suitable maple for the other comp locally, but I will be looking.

 

[Vin]

Actually, there was a discussion regarding the timing with several people participating (myself, Milehigh, Tmmason, Cadillactaste, Vance).
I started it with a suggestion regarding the purchase period on page 5 of your original scoping thread. I made that suggestion with the fact that your goal is to get as much participation as possible.
http://www.bonsainut.com/index.php?threads/bonsai-nut-spring-box-store-challenge.17769/page-5

I guess it got lost in the 10 pages of other stuff going on in that thread.

At this point, it is what it is, no big deal as far as I am concerned because I had already decided not to participate, but I know there are others that would have liked to.
GLHF (Good luck have fun).

As always, I respect and value your opinion and I’m not trying to talk you into participating (although I personally will miss seeing your efforts) but I did take your comments into consideration and tried to convey them in the rules almost exactly how you stated it in post # 55 of the thread you linked. The only thing that really changed was instead of the time frame being March 15th to May 15th its February 28th to May 1st. I guess I missed the mark a little and for that I apologize. However, I’m sure if that’s the only thing some folks can’t get passed no one would mind extending the May 1st deadline to May 15th.

Also, I appreciate the GLHF sentiments but unfortunately for me only the “Good Luck” part applies as it stopped being fun a while back. I am however really looking forward to Mr. Pall’s critique of my work and hopefully you’ll have some input as well. My material should catch some of guard; or at least that’s the plan.

Have a good one,

Vin

 

[tmmason10]

Vin the effort is well appreciated, and I am sure there will be many participators as there was last fall. I for one don't think extending to may 15 as no one will see early entries here, so there is no issue with a larger window of entries.

 

[coh]

Also, I appreciate the GLHF sentiments but unfortunately for me only the “Good Luck” part applies as it stopped being fun a while back.

Vin

That's unfortunate and understandable. That said...I think part of the reason for the issues is that you went ahead and made significant changes to the format, especially regarding plant material. I think it would have been better to stick with what worked in the fall, and establish the contest over a couple of seasons working with the same type of material (conifers), and then consider making some changes. I will be watching to see what people do with the non-coniferous evergreen material, as well as how it is judged.

Chris

 

[Cadillactaste]

That's unfortunate and understandable. That said...I think part of the reason for the issues is that you went ahead and made significant changes to the format, especially regarding plant material. I think it would have been better to stick with what worked in the fall, and establish the contest over a couple of seasons working with the same type of material (conifers), and then consider making some changes. I will be watching to see what people do with the non-coniferous evergreen material, as well as how it is judged.

Chris

I for one am glad not to have to deal with another juniper. There are plenty zone friendly non-conifer evergreens available on my option list I "researched" for me that I'm thrilled to have an excuse to look for. One happens to be #2 on my want list even. Sorry you feel that way...but...I honestly feel you can't please everyone all the time. It's impossible!

Honestly...the contest was for fun...for those nitpicking...fine I say that we need to agree to disagree...and just move on without dredging up the same old same old.

Personally I think Mr.Pall will have no trouble judging...his credentials should stand alone and not even questioned as to how they might be judged. Unless I'm just reading the text wrong...(we can't hear ones well meaning in text) But I think Mr.Pall is quite up to the challenge...and I will enjoy to see the final results...and what others felt a challenge to them in the direction they took with their material.

Maybe the contest is "to much" of a challenge to some...and I get that as well. It's a fun challenge...no one is taken out back and beat with their material...(at least I don't think so! )


Not in any way am I saying this in an aggressive matter...it's a light and fun challenge that okay...we agree to disagree on specifics...just move on...and let others enjoy it and be challenged by their materials. Isn't that what a challenge is all about? (Said with love)

I appreciate your taking the reigns again Vin...frankly...I wouldn't have. So I commend you. Because it allows me to have a chance to dig around nurseries and seek to find material that will indeed challenge me. I believe I am up for that challenge.

 

[coh]

You're over-interpreting my comments and being somewhat dismissive as well (nitpicking comment, "just move on"). I offer my thoughts just as you have, and people are free to consider them or ignore them.

Keep in mind though that there's a good reason that junipers are widely used for these types of "one time styling" contests (including the Joshua Roth new talent contest). In my opinion, the type of material being used for this contest is more suited for development over several seasons. Maybe you and others will prove me wrong. We'll see! But for those of us involved in bonsai for only a few years, I think more benefit would be gained by repeating the process (like when Stacey went out and bought/styled 10 junipers in preparation for the Joshua Roth event) from last fall, rather than shifting to this type of material.

As for judging, I'm in no way questioning Walter's credentials or ability to judge the contest. I'm interesting in seeing how he goes about it for this type of material. That is all.

Chris

 

[sorce]

I still believe what I said earlier about W.P. doing the judging.

It's the only way this will work!
It WILL work!

There's a lot of good artists, but none with such a well documented ability to see the tree, see the future!

I think anyone who hasn't watched the YouTube series from Belgrade is seriously selling themselves short on preparing for this challenge, and bettering yourself as a Bonsai artist in general.

Sorce

 

[sorce]

My favorite one!

 

[Cadillactaste]

What a great sense of humor he has!!! Thanks for the video attachment.

 

[Vance Wood]

I wont be participating in this one, partly because of the lack of available material in the time frame given and partly because I have enough box store material. I am trying to not buy more box store material unless it is truely exceptional box store material which almost never happens.

I wish everyone that does participate luck and look forward to seeing the results.

Thanks to Walter Pall for being willing to be the judge.

I certainly don't wish to tweak you in the nose and I understand about nursery material. Almost all of my trees are nursery trees, mostly because collecting is not an option for me at this time and buying collected trees is not an option either. You should spend some time looking at the stuff you are kind of looking down your nose at today and try to imagine something different for them that you did not see in the beginning.

I have over the last couple of years been doing that very thing to my entire collection. Here is my thinking: If you have had a tree for ten or twenty years and have kept it healthy and potted up it most certainly has to be better material at this point than some pre-bonsai from some professional grower who will charge you a first born and a dollar and a half for it. The problem is the old proverb: Familiarity breeds contempt. Don't hate your trees; transform them.

 

[f1pt4]

Personally, I don't understand what all the hooplah is about.

Here we have someone who decided to facilitate a fun and friendly competition to challenge bonsai enthusiasts of all levels. The guidelines are fairly straight forward, and pretty accommodating to boot. Ok.. so the material itself is challenging, i.e. non-coniferous evergreen, but isn't that what a challenge is all about? To take you out of your comfort zone, so you may perhaps grow as a tree mutilator/bonsai artist, and who knows maybe learn something in the process? I understand, that there will most likely not be any "instant" bonsai like with a juniper or pine challenge, but bonsai isn't about "instant" gratification. If you're looking for instant gratification, you're involved in a wrong pastime. I believe it was mentioned somewhere in this thread that the judging will take into consideration the material, and it's limitations and we should work on the tress as if they weren't judged at all. Work on them as if they were a long-term project, because what's the point of spending 20, 30, 50$ on a tree that you will hack and not learn from, let alone watch it grow and care for it's survival. Mr. Pall is knowledgeable enough to take this into consideration, and the fact that he has graciously agreed to judge this competition, he clearly sees merit in the competition and the material! I'm not going to second guess that. If you want a juniper challenge like that mentioned before of the Joshua Roth kind, who is stopping you from joining that competition. If you want a challenge like the last BSC on this forum, then wait until another similar one is announced in the future! I'm sure that if people stop being so negative and anti anything not Juniperus/cedrus/thuja and open up their mind to something different, then there will be future BSC's and their, for the lack of a better term, tunnel vision will be accommodated at some point. No one is forcing anyone to participate in this. Smoke started up another challenge, which I will be viewing from the sidelines as I don't own, or have access to a 3" Maple trunk. Am I upset about that? No! I'm looking forward to seeing what other create, and perhaps virtually via this platform learn something!

Bonsai is supposed to be fun and relaxing. These competitions are supposed to be friendly and challenging. Just because it doesn't fit into one person's or another modus operandi doesn't mean it's any worse or better than those of competitions past. We all have to remember, no one is forcing Vin or Mr. Pall in moderating or judging this! These people are donating their time and efforts for the greater good of this community. Cut them some slack. Go buy a tree. Learn about it. Hack it, and present it, even if it is just a twig with one or two leaves.

In any case, thanks Vin for doing this. Smoke for doing the other, and Mr. Pall for judging. It's going to be fun, and remember..... haters gonna hate.

Cheers,

Mike.

 

[Paradox]

I

I certainly don't wish to tweak you in the nose and I understand about nursery material. Almost all of my trees are nursery trees, mostly because collecting is not an option for me at this time and buying collected trees is not an option either. You should spend some time looking at the stuff you are kind of looking down your nose at today and try to imagine something different for them that you did not see in the beginning.

I have over the last couple of years been doing that very thing to my entire collection. Here is my thinking: If you have had a tree for ten or twenty years and have kept it healthy and potted up it most certainly has to be better material at this point than some pre-bonsai from some professional grower who will charge you a first born and a dollar and a half for it. The problem is the old proverb: Familiarity breeds contempt. Don't hate your trees; transform them.

Thats the thing Vance, I dont have trees that I bought 20 years ago, and I havent been doing this for 50 years like you have. I currently have 60+ trees, most of which is nursery material. I dont have room for much more if any. I need to work on what I have and do just what youre saying, not buy more new stuff that I already have enough of.

I do believe that your nurseries and elsewhere tend to stock older/bigger plants. I have been to many nurseries and spent many many hours looking, and I very rarely if ever see the kinds of plants others here seem to be able to find at their nurseries. I think that is because it is so much more expensive here for every thing. $50 buys a much bigger plant elsewhere than here.

Also, I have come to the realization that, at 45, I probably dont have 25+ years left to develop a tree. Hopefully I stay healthy enough to be able to manage trees when I get that old. So I need to buy better material if I ever have a hope of having a tree that is anything better than a prebonsai. I really wifh I had started bonsai 20 years ago but I didnt.

 

[Cadillactaste]

I

Thats the thing Vance, I dont have trees that I bought 20 years ago, and I havent been doing this for 50 years like you have. I currently have 60+ trees, most of which is nursery material. I dont have room for much more if any. I need to work on what I have and do just what youre saying, not buy more new stuff that I already have enough of.

I do believe that your nurseries and elsewhere tend to stock older/bigger plants. I have been to many nurseries and spent many many hours looking, and I very rarely if ever see the kinds of plants others here seem to be able to find at their nurseries. I think that is because it is so much more expensive here for every thing. $50 buys a much bigger plant elsewhere than here.

Also, I have come to the realization that, at 45, I probably dont have 25+ years left to develop a tree. Hopefully I stay healthy enough to be able to manage trees when I get that old. So I need to buy better material if I ever have a hope of having a tree that is anything better than a prebonsai. I really wifh I had started bonsai 20 years ago but I didnt.

Hey now...you have 5 more years before you can go down that road of "Over the Hill"

I picked up a lilac last season...not sure about how to address the roots and how well they handle root work...and finding Mr.Pall's blog on lilac. I sent him a message. He was kind enough to offer advice on my mediocre material...basically gave me an eight year plan of developing the tree. That said...that was no where near the 20 years mentioned. I think there are more realistic goals. Depending on the material...
Link where I attached Mr.Pall's comments:
http://bonsainut.com/index.php?threads/a-shout-out-of-thanks-to-neli-with-her-vert-lilac.18174/

I do get wanting to limit your amount of trees. I have no desire to have the amount you do. I'm trying to stay with around 20 trees. Since I do my own landscaping...I don't want to feel overwhelmed. But do feel you will be enjoying the material you have...and taking them to the next level. You do know...we would love seeing some progression threads on what you have now... Is there any of your collection you feel you can bring out the most potential that your excited about working? I would love to hear more in a thread all your own.

 

[Paradox]

You do know...we would love seeing some progression threads on what you have now... Is there any of your collection you feel you can bring out the most potential that your excited about working? I would love to hear more in a thread all your own.

I updated my scots pine in the pine section recently. It didnt get much press unfortunately. The rest arent along far enough to update yet but thanks.

 

[Cadillactaste]

I updated my scots pine in the pine section recently. It didnt get much press unfortunately. The rest arent along far enough to update yet but thanks.

Ahhh pine section. I'll go take a look. But to be honest...the whole needle selection thing is beyond me. So I have tried staying out of conifer sections...sorry.

 

[Eric Group]

I couldn't find anything good yet!! Glad we have some time...

 

[A Random User]

Thanks Vin, for doing the competition!
Keep your head up my friend, folks always gotta find something to complain about!

Funny part is that I came in second last event with a deciduous non conifer tree that didn't need to be styled over a period of time. And from what I recall, it was the only possible "show ready" tree... The only one that could of quite literally been put in a pot and entered into a show. Seems that contest the junipers all needed time to grow out, go figure?

Rather than complaining about rules, it's called working within the parameters of the rules... When picking material, pick what you can that you can make happen within the confines. I will give everyone a hint... think shohin.

By the way... count me in! Competition is the best way to push one's self and one's abilities, always has been. Thanks.

 

[Vin]

Thanks Vin, for doing the competition!
Keep your head up my friend, folks always gotta find something to complain about!

Funny part is that I came in second last event with a deciduous non conifer tree that didn't need to be styled over a period of time. And from what I recall, it was the only possible "show ready" tree... The only one that could of quite literally been put in a pot and entered into a show. Seems that contest the junipers all needed time to grow out, go figure?

Rather than complaining about rules, it's called working within the parameters of the rules... When picking material, pick what you can that you can make happen within the confines. I will give everyone a hint... think shohin.

By the way... count me in! Competition is the best way to push one's self and one's abilities, always has been. Thanks.

Well, I'm glad you're in and thanks for the uplifting comments! There's nothing like raising the bar for all those Advanced Category participants. Actually, your entry from the Fall Challenge inspired me to create the parameters on this one. Like you, I don't understand why many think you have to have some big hulking tree in order to compete. I've got a shohin size Blue Pacific Juniper I've been working on for nearly a year that is probably going to be my nicest tree in a couple more years (and yes I purchased it at a box store). Half the challenge (and fun) is finding material that has the elusive tree within. Not to steal one the great slogans from Nike but 'just do it'.

 

[Vin]

Soooo, when does the challange start and end? My box stores are open and I am scouting today. But I don't want to be early and have no other entries after they see my kickassedness. Yes, kickassedness.

All that information is pinned at the top of the thread. Don't worry or wait, no one will see your finished kickassedness until after the entry deadline and Mr. Pall selects the winners.