“Best Investment” in Bonsai, 6 cents or $6.50 per hour??

[BonsaiDawg]

After reading on Walter Pall’s FB page that he, along with a handful of other professionals, have just released a new online series of lectures on Bonsai Empire which Walter claims, "Will be your best investment in Bonsai.” I am now curious about this new series.

Can anyone tell me what they think Walter means by calling it the 'best investment'?

And for those who've already purchased it and begun watching his lectures: what do you think? Is it well done, super educational?

I imagine the content is very high quality. Have they included instruction of new techniques or work on species never covered before? I’d imagine Walter’s deciduous instruction is quite good, hopefully including his hedge pruning technique.

Does it compare favorably with the detail and granularity of technique, design, and horticulture Ryan provides on Mirai Live?

I presume all of BE’s new lecture content is prerecorded and does not, at least initially, include user participation opportunities, no? Does BE plan to follow up on this series with an included online forum that allows one to ask questions and get answers or receive specific feedback on personal bonsai trees they may want professional advice on?

Back to Walter’s “best investment” comment… I’m hoping BE has produced some new instructional content that is second to none, has never been covered by Ryan, not yet ever taught ….otherwise I/m skeptical of his comment and assume it has to be typical Walter Pall promotional b.s. that in reality is exceedingly far-fetched (did anyone just say, Hedge pruning??)

It's $65 price compared to Mirai Live seems pretty high given the limited quantity (10 hours) of content offered, maybe I am wrong though?

Obviously Mirai is the clear leader in online Bonsai education, but I’d love to know if you think Bonsai Empire has made a compelling enough argument to 'invest' in both educational services?

Yes one could argue the qualitative aspects of one vs the other…..but all in all I’m positive both offer high quality lectures and instruction…. so, what I really want to know from you all is what are you getting for your money $$ invested??

As Walter mentioned on FB, BE’s new online courses include 23 lectures and 10 hours of content for $65.

As I’m sure most know, for $30 per month, Mirai Live provides access to on-going weekly live lectures and live Q&A opportunities plus access to its rapidly expanding, extensive archived library of past produced content. Based on my quick estimate, Mirai’s archived library includes over 520 total hours of instructional content including:
* 320 hours of 'live streamed' video content contained within 160 lectures that average about two hours in length each.
* 120 hours of archived, 'Live Q & A' content, searchable by keyword, previously completed over 120 one-hour segments
* 50 hours of archived, 'Live Forum Q & A' (searchable) content completed over about 50 one-hour segments
* 30 hours of archived, 'Feature' content previously completed, 75 segments in total.

If you look at this service on a cost per hour (of content provided) basis in comparison to Mirai, it appears to not only fall well short…but flat on its face.

Mirai Live: 520 hrs for $30 = $.057 per hour - less than 6 measly pennies per hour

Bonsai Empire package: 10 hours for $65 = $6.50 per hour (and does not include regularly held ‘live’ lectures or ‘Q&A’ participation content)

Bonsai Empire’s price of its content per view able hour is a totally insane amount more expensive than Mirai live’s content, 11,400% more expensive!!!

Unless or until BE can bridge the 500 hours of content gap between it and Mirai this is no contest regardless of how entertaining his lectures are….

10 hours vs 520 hours.....So it appears quite clear to me that Walter’s new BE lectures are anything BUT the “best investment” one could make on their bonsai education….

 

[Woocash]

I’m not comparing either of the two, but just to point out, for the price you quoted you’d have to watch over 17 hours of mirai a day for the whole month. I suggest you’d be spending a hell of a lot more Than $30 to get through the entire 520 hours.

 

[BonsaiDawg]

I’m not comparing either of the two, but just to point out, for the price you quoted you’d have to watch over 17 hours of mirai a day for the whole month. I suggest you’d be spending a hell of a lot more Than $30 to get through the entire 520 hours.

At my alarmingly compulsive rate, I may get through it all in under 22 days...LOL But, yes you are right....it was my attempt to exaggerate my point...

 

[Housguy]

Another pitty in an avatar, nice, beautiful dog!!
this is her when we rescued her 6 years ago.

 

[BonsaiDawg]

Another pitty in an avatar, nice, beautiful dog!!
this is her when we rescuedView attachment 285435 her 6 years ago.

Hahaha ....She's gorgeous, what's her name??

 

[PeaceLoveBonsai]

This is gonna sound like a total first world problem, but sometimes I wonder if Ryan has too much available. What I like about Bonsai Empire is that the content is often very organized and efficient. I often go to Mirai looking for something or a video I remember watching, then I have difficulty finding it. Even if I find the right video, I’m searching a 2 hour discussion. BE’s stuff is typically very well thought out. Quick hits. Easy to understand. You can literally take a tree and work step by step along with the course.

Ryan can get a bit “wordy”.

I’ve invested in both and have found value from both. More than anything, I try support bonsai professionals b/c we need more in this country, not less. And I know I can always learn more. My 2 cents.

Also, I’m guessing this thread is gonna spin out of control pretty quick, and I’m here for it.

 

[Woocash]

At my alarmingly compulsive rate, I may get through it all in under 22 days...LOL But, yes you are right....it was my attempt to exaggerate my point...

Yea fair enough. There’s probably plenty of value in both, but quantity does not always mean quality. Ryan makes money from putting out new content and keeping hold of customers so although it is no doubt a treasure trove of information sifting through that much will not always be easy. Also, having a mix of views and teachers and styles will generally be a benefit, when they know what they’re talking about. As a noob who has invested in neither, I’d probably plump for Bonsai Empire right off the bat.

 

[MrWunderful]

I bought a decent amount of Bonsai Empire lessons.
They were decent, with good production value.
I found the length on each subject lacking, but it was to the point. I found the horticultural side VERY lacking, but that might be by design.
The Bjorn/Harry/Walter/Mauro videos are obviously pre-thought out and follow somewhat of a script (not verbatim).

I personally prefer mirai videos, but can understand why someone wouldn't want to be roped in for 350$ a year, but the sheer quantity (and content) makes it an easy decision for me. I feel Ryan is an expert public speaker, and goes pretty far indepth into the “why”.
i also prefer the layout, the Q/As, the featured content, etc.

 

[BonsaiDawg]

Yea fair enough. There’s probably plenty of value in both, but quantity does not always mean quality. Ryan makes money from putting out new content and keeping hold of customers so although it is no doubt a treasure trove of information sifting through that much will not always be easy. Also, having a mix of views and teachers and styles will generally be a benefit, when they know what they’re talking about. As a noob who has invested in neither, I’d probably plump for Bonsai Empire right off the bat.

So you are telling me you would pay over twice the amount to receive less than 2% of what Mirai provides? 10 hours vs 520 hours?? You are HIGH as a kite my brotha!

 

[Woocash]

Well I don’t subscribe to either, but if I did then I feel a structured course would probably serve more benefit. Like watching a video book. I know Mirai does the same thing, but the videos I‘ve seen haven’t always been easy to watch. The format and Ryan’s style can get a little tiring after a while. Just my personal preference.

 

[Housguy]

Hahaha ....She's gorgeous, what's her name??

Sadie
and your Boy?

 

[Zach Smith]

How do you measure the effectiveness of the training?

 

[Warpig]

I believe it was @sorce who once said something along the lines of "Quality doesn't sell videos, production value does."

 

[Colorado Josh]

Last winter when the government shutdown, I found that I had an excessive amount of time on my hands. So I binged on the Mirai lectures. At $18 a month, it is more than enough content to keep me going. There is a lot of fluff, so I keep a notebook for stuff that I will come back to. The Mirai forum is pretty weak. Bnut fills that in.

 

[MrWunderful]

How do you measure the effectiveness of the training?

Thats a very important and valid question. You cant really, unless someone was giving you a test on specifically what they were teaching.

I suppose one could test themselves, based on if they had trees die more, or if they felt they were producing better/more vigorous trees.

Once I started studying with a local professional, I will always recommend that over a video. But it isnt for everyone, because of geography and cost. Online videos are accessible to everyone (assuming one wants to pay for that tier of video).

I listen to bonsai videos almost everyday on my commute, so I get a significant value out of paid content.

For what its worth, there is enough free info online for anyone who has a driving interest.

 

[Adair M]

So you are telling me you would pay over twice the amount to receive less than 2% of what Mirai provides? 10 hours vs 520 hours?? You are HIGH as a kite my brotha!

Using that standard, you should watch hours of Peter Chan and Nigel Saunders for FREE on YouTube.

 

[BonsaiDawg]

I believe it was @sorce who once said something along the lines of "Quality doesn't sell videos, production value does."

Which service do you subscribe to, Mirai or Bonsai Empire, or both?

 

[MrWunderful]

I don’t know if it’s fair to just equate the amount of time to the dollar value.

BE= Videos specific to techniques, species, and to the point.

Mirai= much more free flowing discussion.There is content on specific techniques, but a majority of the live streams are discussion, or in question and answer format.

As someone who has spent over 200$ on BE videos, I wish they were a bit cheaper- but can see value in the price.

 

[Zach Smith]

Thats a very important and valid question. You cant really, unless someone was giving you a test on specifically what they were teaching.

I suppose one could test themselves, based on if they had trees die more, or if they felt they were producing better/more vigorous trees.

Once I started studying with a local professional, I will always recommend that over a video. But it isnt for everyone, because of geography and cost. Online videos are accessible to everyone (assuming one wants to pay for that tier of video).

I listen to bonsai videos almost everyday on my commute, so I get a significant value out of paid content.

For what its worth, there is enough free info online for anyone who has a driving interest.

Much of bonsai is subjective. I think most long-time enthusiasts will say they've learned more from mistakes than from doing things right. Mistakes aren't included in the training videos. But you have to do some things right at some point. I can't imagine anyone gorging on 500 hours of bonsai instruction over any relatively short period of time and absorbing much ... because the mistakes, they will come. Anyway, I think it's best to try and figure out what you're comfortable with from a price, time and personal learning style perspective, then jump on in. A low-cost start is always best.

 

[BonsaiDawg]

Using that standard, you should watch hours of Peter Chan and Nigel Saunders for FREE on YouTube.

OH yea? Please enlightenment me.

Ryan Neil = Nigel SANDERS??
Poorly executed analogy mr squarepants