Importance of PLENTY of water

[canoeguide]

I'm all for the Walter Pall method of watering, if only because I love watering the shit out of everything. In spring/fall this requires more care where I live, but the rest of the summer I flood everything and it seems to love it.

 

[Joe Dupre']

I'm all for the Walter Pall method of watering, if only because I love watering the shit out of everything. In spring/fall this requires more care where I live, but the rest of the summer I flood everything and it seems to love it.

Same here.

 

[Clicio]

Every season I've been watering more than the last one. And more. And more.
Didn't lose any trees in the last year and a half...

 

[Shogun610]

What are your thoughts on mycorrhizae growth promoter on the roots.. I’m
New to bonsai see my recent post! But have a chemistry/microbiology backround. I also put in promoter for the mycorrhizae in 2/4 bonsai pots that had a akadama, lava rock and pumice mix. Not sure if the mycorrhizae will compete with whatever is existing on the transplanted roots but well see! I’m heavy watering in morning and evening . Misting during the peak of the day till temps cool down. My backyard has sun for 8 hours and a lot of shade in evening / morning

 

[Joe Dupre']

From what I've read, mycorrhizae are more importatant for conifers. I have a few juninpers that seem to be doing well without any special treatment. I think if you give a tree a healthy environment, it will foster it's own mycorrhizae from what's left on the roots and the native soil that's left on the tree at the time of collection. I have no idea if that's true or not, but my trees are doing pretty good these last 6 years.

 

[cmeg1]

What are your thoughts on mycorrhizae growth promoter on the roots.. I’m
New to bonsai see my recent post! But have a chemistry/microbiology backround. I also put in promoter for the mycorrhizae in 2/4 bonsai pots that had a akadama, lava rock and pumice mix. Not sure if the mycorrhizae will compete with whatever is existing on the transplanted roots but well see! I’m heavy watering in morning and evening . Misting during the peak of the day till temps cool down. My backyard has sun for 8 hours and a lot of shade in evening / morning

I said this in post #7......according to the video course I took in hydroponics
“Myco fungi not needed at all if using instant available type phospherous.....root will expell it for a pathogen( so I’ve learned in the science).”

Seems its main role is to make organic phospherous more available.....or something

 

[Shibui]

Agree with @cmeg1 trees have adapted mychorriza in areas where soils are poor. They need help to get enough nutrients. When nutrients are abundant the tree can pick it up through the roots like other plants so have no need for fungal assistance.
Expel as a pathogen or just stop wasting resources to support it? Not sure. As mentioned above splitting N2 is very energy intensive so plants, bacteria and fungi only do it if absolutely necessary. Who wants to waste effort growing and hunting food when someone is leaving nutritious meals at your door every day?

Mychorriza just turns up in all my pine pots, even without adding any so I see no sense in adding expensive innoculants.

 

[leatherback]

Seems its main role is to make organic phospherous more available.....or something

yup. This is what I concluded from academic literature too. The roots will collaborate with the fungi in low phosphorous situation. High levels will make them drop the connection

 

[YAN]

OK, worst case scenario.... Say none of my trees can use nitrogen directly from the atmosphere, BUT, I'm introducing it to bacteria and fungi in my rich, highly organic soil and THEY break it down into something the trees can use. I feed them and they feed my trees. I'd call that a win.

Another angle. While all this nitrogen is being taken into the soil, 21% of that air is oxygen, and oxygen CAN be taken in by the roots. Either way, it speaks FOR watering your trees aggressively.

How are you using walter pall’s method of aggressive watering on your highly organic soil? Wouldnt that lead to overwatering?

 

[Shogun610]

I said this in post #7......according to the video course I took in hydroponics
“Myco fungi not needed at all if using instant available type phospherous.....root will expell it for a pathogen( so I’ve learned in the science).”

Seems its main role is to make organic phospherous more available.....or something

Okay so I don’t know how much phosphorus is in my Akadama, Lava Rock And Pumice mix ... I didn’t use a fertilizer yet but I did have the root promoter measured and around roots mixed in,that has organic fertilizer and mycorrhizae spores. But it’s a experiment..... how about Nitrogen fixing , does moss do this besides looks and holding soil down? What about clovers in the pot , they’re nitrogen fixing.

 

[leatherback]

Why not just use fertilizer?


☑☑

 

[Shogun610]

Why not just use fertilizer?


☑☑

It’s a organic fertilizer w myco promoters... Im
Not too fond of inorganic chemical fertilizers .. especially from a sustainably aspect.

 

[leatherback]

I didn’t use a fertilizer yet

?

 

[Shogun610]

?

Don’t misquote me

 

[Joe Dupre']

How are you using walter pall’s method of aggressive watering on your highly organic soil? Wouldnt that lead to overwatering?

Overwatering is basically almost impossible with free draining soil. I use the analogy of a collander full of 5 mm stones. If you pour 1 gal ....or 2 gallons ......or 10 gallons of water over the stones, the same amount of water stays behind after it drains for 10 minutes or so. Now, in the early spring and late fall, I water less frequently because the tree can get by for a couple of days from the previous watering.

I think some people overthink bonsai soil and watering. Decent , middle of the road soil kept moist will work fine. Add a bit of fertilizer and you're good.

 

[YAN]

Overwatering is basically almost impossible with free draining soil. I use the analogy of a collander full of 5 mm stones. If you pour 1 gal ....or 2 gallons ......or 10 gallons of water over the stones, the same amount of water stays behind after it drains for 10 minutes or so. Now, in the early spring and late fall, I water less frequently because the tree can get by for a couple of days from the previous watering.

I think some people overthink bonsai soil and watering. Decent , middle of the road soil kept moist will work fine. Add a bit of fertilizer and you're good.

I understand,

im very new to bonsai, but since you mentioned (highly organic soil) and (aggressive watering) and from what i read that organic parts in soil are highly water retentive, I questioned myself if that would lead to root rot even if it’s free draining and in colander.

 

[Clicio]

... parts in soil are highly water retentive, I questioned myself if that would lead to root rot even if it’s free draining.

"Higly retentive" and "free draining".
Yes, I guess it is possible.
DE and crushed fired bricks come to mind, as well as pine bark chips.
But the main point is this: "if that would lead to root rot even if it’s free draining".
If the soil is free draining, then there is no root rot.

 

[leatherback]

misquote me

? ☑

 

[sorce]

There is also a difference between "root rot" and roots "rotting" because of too much water.

When roots rot because of too much water, you get good roots remaining at the surface and outskirts.

Wikipedia..
Aside from waterlogging, many cases of root rot are caused by pathogens, such as the water mold genus Phytophthora;[4][7] particularly the species P. cinnamomi. Other commonly responsible pathogens include Pythium, Rhizoctonia, and Fusarium.[7][2] Spores from root rot causing agents do contaminate other plants, but the rot cannot take hold unless there is adequate moisture.

Wet and stagnant introduces and entertains the spores that spread.

Fully flushed everyday keeps them away.

Sorce

 

[Forsoothe!]

Mycorrhizae are more in evidence in highly organic soils than elsewhere. Look in a compost pile and compare it to any other media. Statements that trees use/encourage/support it in poor soils seems incongruous in that there is less food and or other amenable conditions available in poor soils. Yes, there is a symbiotic relationship, but is that relationship caused by the fruits of the union, or just coincident convienence?

You can overwater any media, and any media can get too dry. As long as your watering habits match the needs of your tree/pot/media combination, then it doesn't matter how retentive or draining it is. If you have Pines and Bald Cypress and treat them the same, one will die.