JBP... "Where to begin?"

tmjudd1

tmjudd1

Mame
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Location
Dallas, Texas
USDA Zone
8a
This is one of my two newly acquired JBP's. The other one is identical to this one, except it has needles growing out of the trunk almost all the way down to the soil level. Purchasing these trees might have been a rookie mistake, but what the heck. "They're mine now... "All MINE!" LOL
For 'this' tree... it's over-all height, from soil to top of the tallest bud/candle, is 11.5". The 'bare' trunk length, from soil to first branching, is 5.0". The diameter of the trunk is 11/32's at the soil level, tapering down to 1/4" at the first branch. I was told that this tree is four years old, however. After examining photos of four year JBP's, I'm not so sure..??? You folks would be a better judge of true age than me.
Most of the online information that I'm finding, on Black Pines, deals with more mature trees, not juveniles such as this. That being said... and while I wait for the upcoming Bonsai Society meeting, what can I do to begin work on these two trees?

A)... Should I start plucking needles to thin it out a bit?
B)... Should I do any pruning, or would this be a bad time of year (zone 8a)?
C)... What about wiring the trunk and giving it some direction?
D)... Re-pot them into something larger than these small nursery pots?
E)... As for the other tree... Should I leave all of the needles on the trunk, for future trunk development/enlargement?

I'm anxious to do some work on something, this weekend. If this is a bad time of year to mess with these pines... I'll just go wire another juniper! :)

IMG_20181229_083109720.jpg
 
After an all day event, looking into JBP, online, I 'finally' stumbled upon a teeny, tiny morsel of useful info concerning the treatment of young trees, such as mine, to prepare them for future Bonsai potential. You experienced folks will know, right away, what 'one' of my first courses of action should be, come spring, if you study the needles on the branches of the tree pictured in my initial post. I also have a good stack of books collected. Every one of them just barely 'touching' on JBP and not really saying much at all. It's a shame that so little information is readily available for such a species of tree that is obviously so popular! "So be it. I'll simply 'endeavor to persevere'!"
 
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Adair M said:
These need to grow!
Click to expand...
Yes they do. They need to grow for a very long time, however. They also need to grow with a future plan in mind, thoughtful styling and proper care before they can someday become 'Bonsai', otherwise. They'll just look like wild over-grown trees.
 
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Looking at the tree, four years sounds about right.

I would leave them be until spring. In spring repot into colanders and wire the trunks for movement. Don't remove anything. When you repot arrange the roots radially. Work them into full sun after a few weeks.
 
tmjudd1 said:
Yes they do. They need to grow for a very long time, however. They also need to grow with a future plan in mind, thoughtful styling and proper care before they can someday become 'Bonsai', otherwise. They'll just look like wild over-grown trees.
Click to expand...
Your response makes it sound like you think you know what you are doing and you believe something needs to be done right now!
Actually the suggestion to wire in some movement and improve the future with a repot in the spring is the right course of action. It is possible that these are four years old but if so, then they are poorly developed and underdeveloped at this point. Removing any foliage or branches at this point will just delay progress, there is plenty of time to develop a plan. The tree pictured above needs strengthening and growth in order to have the vigor to respond properly to development techniques. Even if your goal is to create a shohin tree. Just for comparison i have attached a picture of four year old JBP. This tree has been cut back on several occasions during the third and fourth growing season. It is 26 inches tall in this picture. The trunk at the base is 1 1/2 inches.
 

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River's Edge said:
It is possible that these are four years old but if so, then they are poorly developed and underdeveloped at this point.
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Thanks Frank!
After looking at four year old trees, online, I came to the same conclusion as you.
River's Edge said:
The tree pictured above needs strengthening and growth in order to have the vigor to respond properly to development techniques
Click to expand...
I tried to remove the pot, to have a look at the roots and search for any good fungal growth, but no joy. The pot is hugging this tree's roots tighter than 'Dick's Hatband'! Being afraid of breaking the pot and not having a replacement... I left things alone. Come spring, should I clean up the roots, trim them down a bit, and re-pot the tree to encourage new root growth, more vigor and hopefully stronger health?
 
tmjudd1 said:
I tried to remove the pot, to have a look at the roots and search for any good fungal growth, but no joy. The pot is hugging this tree tighter than 'Dick's Hatband'! Being afraid of breaking the pot
Click to expand...
I see a cheap, thin walled plastic pot in your pix. Just give it a few squeezes or lay it on the edge of a bench and apply a little pressure while rolling it around (like one does as prep to juice a lemon/lime/orange/citrus fruit). Alternatively or If it doesn't slide right off, run a dull knife around the perimeter, it will then slide right off (provided you don't have roots growing out of the drainage holes - cut them off if you do).
 
With a distance of 5 inches between the soil and first branch, these won’t be shohin. These will be taller bonsai. Wire the trunk with this in mind.
 
tmjudd1 said:
Thanks Frank!
After looking at four year old trees, online, I came to the same conclusion as you.

I tried to remove the pot, to have a look at the roots and search for any good fungal growth, but no joy. The pot is hugging this tree's roots tighter than 'Dick's Hatband'! Being afraid of breaking the pot and not having a replacement... I left things alone. Come spring, should I clean up the roots, trim them down a bit, and re-pot the tree to encourage new root growth, more vigor and hopefully stronger health?
Click to expand...

There is a lot of good information out there, many people have contributed to information on developing pines.

Check out articles by Brent Walston, Jonas Dupuich, Eric Schrader. ( internet search)
Check out posts in the pine section of this forum.
Obtain a copy of the Bonsai Today " Masters Series" Pines.
Available through Stone Lantern ( online)

You have lots of time to get acquainted with development strategies before needing to implement any of them. The safe route at this time is 1/2 HBR this spring into free draining mix and larger growing container. The other 1/2 HBR in the fall if the tree responds well. I suggest this slower approach due to the tree's obvious slower growth pattern and levels of experience. There are bound to be some root issues to deal with first. Ask an experienced person to assist you with the first repotting, choose a wooden grow box or clay pot of suitable size for the next stage.
 
tmjudd1 said:
After an all day event, looking into JBP, online, I 'finally' stumbled upon a teeny, tiny morsel of useful info concerning the treatment of young trees, such as mine, to prepare them for future Bonsai potential. You experienced folks will know, right away, what 'one' of my first courses of action should be, come spring, if you study the needles on the branches of the tree pictured in my initial post. I also have a good stack of books collected. Every one of them just barely 'touching' on JBP and not really saying much at all. It's a shame that so little information is readily available for such a species of tree that is obviously so popular! "So be it. I'll simply 'endeavor to persevere'!"
Click to expand...

Hi,
I won’t try and say anything wise about JPB pines as I am a newbie here too.
So with that, when you have read the 100’s of threads and pages of JBP’s via the search engine on this website, then read all the websites which others have posted about, then bought 10-20 JBP’s to work on (well, left alone for 2-4 years apart from wiring for bends in trunk), and bought a pre-bonsai JBP of 10 years plus to look after and work on....
THEN come back to this thread and read your first post or three. It may be humbling, and ...
Sorry if my post causes offence as my comments from my country may be a little blunt etc.
Here is my first JPB - worthy of all advice given also
1B8426ED-3FC3-48E5-A501-26F541769C9F.jpeg

Charles.
 
Due to the size of this tree, along with my desires to turn it into something nice looking in 10 years, or less... I'm thinking "Katade-Mochi"!
My plans for this tree are simple. I first wish to thicken the trunk by leaving sacrificial growth climbing above my chosen apex, while keeping the apex pruned and in 'check'. Everything marked with red X's will be pruned off in spring. The two lower branch 'possibilities' have me scratching my head. "Will those lower branches help to thicken the trunk, or will they counter-productively 'suck needful energy away from the trunk'... and also need to be pruned until I am happy with the trunk size and taper?"
Ugly Duckling Possibilities~1.jpg
 
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River's Edge said:
Obtain a copy of the Bonsai Today " Masters Series" Pines.
Available through Stone Lantern ( online)
Click to expand...
Thanks for the 'heads up' on recommended reading materials. All helpful! I purchased a couple of books from Stone Lantern... the "Masters Series Pine" being one of them ;).
 
tmjudd1 said:
Thanks for the 'heads up' on recommended reading materials. All helpful! I purchased a couple of books from Stone Lantern... the "Masters Series Pine" being one of them ;).
Click to expand...
I have this book, and is the only book on pines I have.
What little time I've spent here at BN surpasses what this books brings to the table.
Not that I've absorbed the many differences here, or in the book either one, compared
the book leaves way too many questions, teaches as an "umbrella" style, and really
should be used as a single tool in your arsenal of knowledge to gain.
It's not a bad book. It will help you, but it may also cause you to make mistakes
applying techniques to trees in an untimely manner as I have. That's the umbrella style I mention.
It's like I was every year, treating all my trees as if they were supposed to be going to show
at each turn. That is what you'll need to understand when you read this book.
I learned this issue as Adair asked why I was doing this or that...well the book said...yeh.
Timing is everything, but you cannot do everything annually.

Edit:
BTW I like your wiring/movement. Nice job.
 
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