About To Buy My First Japanese White Pine.....thoughts?

[Everlong]

Please be gentle!

I'm hoping to pick up this JWP later in the week. The trunk is thick, with great movement and taper after the initial "twist". Good ramification too.

Should I be concerned about the slightly lighter colour?

 

[Vince Sartain]

Where are you located? White Pine can be a bit finicky.

 

[Everlong]

Where are you located? White Pine can be a bit finicky.

UK Climate zone 8b - this tree was imported to the UK in 2024 and has been with the nursery since

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

…it helps to put both you Location and USDA plant hardiness zone on your profile.

That said, tree looks ok from the images ands decently maintained. First image shows ok foliage. Pot is likely a tad small for my taste.

Honestly as an entry hobbyist purchasing a nice tree like this, would recommend you seek someone knowledgeable with JWP to help you work on the tree for a couple of years.

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Japanese white pine is a mountain pine, and does best with a little cold in the winter and doesn't like hot summers very much. In the US on the west coast they were often grafted on Japanese black pine rootstock, which made them a little more heat tolerant, but also created issues with hiding the graft union. I can't tell if your tree is grafted or not, but it is something to be aware of.

Otherwise the tree looks healthy to me. I don't see any issues with the lighter needle color. It is being well-maintained - perhaps a little heavy on the top and a little weak on the bottom branches, but that is easily fixed.

 

[Everlong]

…it helps to put both you Location and USDA plant hardiness zone on your profile.

That said, tree looks ok from the images ands decently maintained. First image shows ok foliage. Pot is likely a tad small for my taste.

Honestly as an entry hobbyist purchasing a nice tree like this, would recommend you seek someone knowledgeable with JWP to help you work on the tree for a couple of years.

Cheers
DSD sends

Many thanks - I will add that info - I’m in the UK zone 8b. I’m a member of my local Bonsai club so should have some great support there if needed.

 

[Everlong]

Japanese white pine is a mountain pine, and does best with a little cold in the winter and doesn't like hot summers very much. In the US on the west coast they were often grafted on Japanese black pine rootstock, which made them a little more heat tolerant, but also created issues with hiding the graft union. I can't tell if your tree is grafted or not, but it is something to be aware of.

Otherwise the tree looks healthy to me. I don't see any issues with the lighter needle color. It is being well-maintained - perhaps a little heavy on the top and a little weak on the bottom branches, but that is easily fixed.

Thanks - that all mates total sense. My gut feeling is that this one is not grafted but I’ll be able to tell for sure when I see it in person later in the week. I’m in the South East of the UK, zone 8b, summers are usually in the Mid High 20’s, occasionally rising to the 30s C for short periods. Winters here are generally mild and wet with occasional periods of cold and frost (we just had a 7-10 day period where night time temps dropped -5 to -8C and daytime temps were 0-2C.

From the research I’ve done so far it looks like controlling the wetness of the substrate will be the biggest challenge. That should be easy to control other than during the autumn/winter when it can rain for prolonged periods. The plan would be to keep it protected form rainfall during those months but unprotected from freezing temps by using a plastic “greenhouse” with the front kept open.

 

[RoadManDenDron]

I would go for a very free draining substrate to tackle the wet rather than a plastic greenhouse, which will probably actually have higher humidity (and less airflow) than just being outside!

I would assume this is grafted to black pine, quite often the actual graft is much higher than you expect as an effort to hide it

The colour is pretty normal for jwp in the uk this time of year!

I also think the pot is in the small size

What nursery is this? I dont recognise it!

 

[Everlong]

I would go for a very free draining substrate to tackle the wet rather than a plastic greenhouse, which will probably actually have higher humidity (and less airflow) than just being outside!

I would assume this is grafted to black pine, quite often the actual graft is much higher than you expect as an effort to hide it

The colour is pretty normal for jwp in the uk this time of year!

I also think the pot is in the small size

What nursery is this? I dont recognise it!

Thanks - that all makes sense. It’s Windybank Nursery in south London.

 

[RoadManDenDron]

Ah ok, in which case im pretty confident i seen this tree at Heathrow show and I believe the graft is around the area circled

This is quite unusual in that we actually want jwp to be grafted in the UK as they really struggle on their own roots. We just dont get cold enough winters

Youre really lucky to be near to windybank! They have fantastic imported shohin and mame trees!

 

[Everlong]

View attachment 625861

Ah ok, in which case im pretty confident i seen this tree at Heathrow show and I believe the graft is around the area circled

This is quite unusual in that we actually want jwp to be grafted in the UK as they really struggle on their own roots. We just dont get cold enough winters

Youre really lucky to be near to windybank! They have fantastic imported shohin and mame trees!

I’m two and a half hours away sadly but they sent me some images of their current stock - felt very drawn to this particular tree. I just don’t want to spend a fairly large amount of money on it only to kill it!!!

 

[RoadManDenDron]

I dont know your experience level or what club you're a member of to advise who can help you,

I wouldnt hesitate to recommend Peter Warren if youre not too far from him,

I remember the feeling of not wanting to kill an expensive tree!

If anyone at your club has good white pines, seek their advice about how they do in your area

 

[Everlong]

I dont know your experience level or what club you're a member of to advise who can help you,

I wouldnt hesitate to recommend Peter Warren if youre not too far from him,

I remember the feeling of not wanting to kill an expensive tree!

If anyone at your club has good white pines, seek their advice about how they do in your area

I’m pretty new to Bonsai but in my 50s so don’t have time to start from saplings I messaged somebody at the club and he said “don’t buy JWP they’re pretty much impossible to keep in the UK as our summers aren’t sunny enough”

 

[RoadManDenDron]

I didnt want to outright put you off a tree that youre obviously into

But honestly JWP are what I call 'boss level pines'

You would find a scotty much easier to care for.

I definitely wouldn't recommend starting from a seedling over this kind of material,

But the same investment could be placed much safer in a Scott's pine

Or maybe an itoigawa juniper

If you have plenty of sun in your garden.

 

[Everlong]

Appreciate the honesty

My garden is SW facing so yes, very sunny

 

[SgtPilko]

Hey mate, as a fairly newish hobbyist my first pine was a grafted white pine from Windybank and its never missed a beat thus far. Ymmv.

They are more finicky than some species, but not impossible, I see lots more white than black pines in local collections. Some seem to present more yellowish, some more green or blueish depending on exact variant, grafted vs ungrafted etc. you are right that humidity management is the main thing - when it comes to repotting (and you might want to do that late spring if it is not draining well), i use something like 2/3s pumice, 1/3 kiryu. Peter Warren has joked that in Japan they used to water around the JWP rather than on them hehe

Aesthetically, i cannot tell so well from the pictures but maybe some inverse taper into that middle section, first bit of trunk above the nebari actually narrower? Maybe going blind once you are on the nursery you can take your time to peruse everything and check its the one you like, there'll be 20 other JWP to compare against too i shouldn't wonder.

Ken is a good guy with good trees and a lot of knowledge so hang about for a chat, he can send you off with good advice, and he doesn't sell duds that I've seen! I go for one tree, come back with 3

 

[Everlong]

Hey mate, as a fairly newish hobbyist my first pine was a grafted white pine from Windybank and its never missed a beat thus far. Ymmv.

They are more finicky than some species, but not impossible, I see lots more white than black pines in local collections. Some seem to present more yellowish, some more green or blueish depending on exact variant, grafted vs ungrafted etc. you are right that humidity management is the main thing - when it comes to repotting (and you might want to do that late spring if it is not draining well), i use something like 2/3s pumice, 1/3 kiryu. Peter Warren has joked that in Japan they used to water around the JWP rather than on them hehe

Aesthetically, i cannot tell so well from the pictures but maybe some inverse taper into that middle section, first bit of trunk above the nebari actually narrower? Maybe going blind once you are on the nursery you can take your time to peruse everything and check its the one you like, there'll be 20 other JWP to compare against too i shouldn't wonder.

Ken is a good guy with good trees and a lot of knowledge so hang about for a chat, he can send you off with good advice, and he doesn't sell duds that I've seen! I go for one tree, come back with 3

That’s very reassuring, thank you.

Thinking about it more last night, I realise that it could be over wintered under my BBQ shelter/canopy.

That would keep it out of the rain but have zero impact on humidity or temperature.

My garden faces SW so it’ll get plenty of sunshine during the growing season.

Accor the re-pot, I’ll have a chat about that with them. I think if the substrate is free draining I may leave it one season but I’ll see what the guys at the nursery say.

 

[Potawatomi13]

View attachment 625861

Ah ok, in which case im pretty confident i seen this tree at Heathrow show and I believe the graft is around the area circled

This is quite unusual in that we actually want jwp to be grafted in the UK as they really struggle on their own roots. We just dont get cold enough winters

Youre really lucky to be near to windybank! They have fantastic imported shohin and mame trees!

I don't see any normal sign of a graft there at all. No noticeable change in the bark and it does not seem the low branches would be growing right at the area of the graft either. There is also the matter that no graft is normally done right where it's bending like that. It does seem that the base of the trunk is smaller than the diameter during the big bend so there is a reverse taper there. There are a lot of whorl branches to be thinned out and the tree will be more interesting and easier to work on once that is done. The first pic with the pop can shows the base trunk straight up and no rootage on that front side of the tree and might suggest a replanting leaning the tree back to bring roots to the surface here and using another view as the trees front and showing the bend in the trunk better.

 

[Erika_Leaman]

Regarding the reverse taper.

Wether there is, or isn't actually reverse taper, the photos give the impression that there is reverse taper, so I would bare that in mind and maybe look for another tree.

To add another observation to what folks mentioned previously, it seems JWP is more common than JBP in exhibitions/shows ive seen in Scotland.

 

[Erika_Leaman]

I would also suggest you look into scots pine. Ofcourse unless you already have them.