Japanese Elm looks horrible. Advice please...

[Bonsai Babby]

Hello, I have this elm that I got 10+ years ago and I never really liked how it looks. There is a skinny bare trunk and a giant ball/knot at the top where all the branches come out. Can I do a trunk chop? I've been reading about it and it makes me nervous. It won't kill the tree? How would I do it, just cut the whole top off a few inches from the soil? Here are some photos... thank you.

https://imgur.com/duj09qr

https://imgur.com/kw6cQiG

https://imgur.com/Z4Z23LU

https://imgur.com/jvgRVNe

 

[rockm]

You keeping this inside?

 

[Bonsai Babby]

You keeping this inside?

Hello, no it is in full sun, but I spent several hours reading since I made this post. I decided I need to move it to a big growing bin and do a trunk chop. The top is never going to look normal, it is a giant ball.

Here is a post from 7 years ago about the same tree. I kept it in that little pot this whole time. https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/how-should-i-trim-my-chinese-elm.31994/

 

[bwaynef]

You've either got a grow-out project on your hands, or you need to start studying up on how to make a broom. I think that's where this trunk would shine.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Just be aware that right now your tree is going into fall dormancy (hence the fall colors). Even in SoCal, elms will go into a dormant period until about mid-Feb. I wouldn't recommend doing anything major until the spring.

 

[brentwood]

What's it been growing in for those 10 years? Maybe up pot it and work on that trunk a while, maybe put in the ground. Just a thought, some girth would do it a lot of good.
B

 

[Bonsai Babby]

Just be aware that right now your tree is going into fall dormancy (hence the fall colors). Even in SoCal, elms will go into a dormant period until about mid-Feb. I wouldn't recommend doing anything major until the spring.

Thank you, I think I have a game plan now. I'm gonna put it in a large growing pot and do the trunk chop in March or when it starts showing little buds.

Generally with an Elm (I think it is Japanese but it might be Chinese, I don't remember and it was a gift) can I do one tapering chop a year or should I wait 2 years, or does it just depend on how the plant looks?

Edit: Mine is a Japanese Elm or Zelkova Serrata, I looked up the leaves.

 

[Shibui]

I looked at the pictures and I'm very confident you have a Chinese elm - Ulmus parvifolia. Leaves, bark colour and growth habit are all consistent with Chinese elm.

What is one tapering chop?
With Chinese elm I'd usually just chop at the point I want new branches to start. You may get 1 or 2 shoots from the trunk but most new buds will form from the cambium layer around the top of the cut. As those develop you'll need to remove some to encourage the best ones and avoid a repeat of the ball/knot you currently have.
I agree that chop in Spring would be good. In the meantime, feed and water well to build up strength so you'll get a better response to the chop. It currently doesn't look real healthy so plenty of TLC until dormancy.

 

[rockm]

Thank you, I think I have a game plan now. I'm gonna put it in a large growing pot and do the trunk chop in March or when it starts showing little buds.

Generally with an Elm (I think it is Japanese but it might be Chinese, I don't remember and it was a gift) can I do one tapering chop a year or should I wait 2 years, or does it just depend on how the plant looks?

Edit: Mine is a Japanese Elm or Zelkova Serrata, I looked up the leaves.

It’s a Chinese elm. Japanese zelkova is not very common as starter material. Zelkova name is used to dodge import restrictions

 

[Bonsai Babby]

It’s a Chinese elm. Japanese zelkova is not very common as starter material. Zelkova name is used to dodge import restrictions

edit: I googled chinese elm and zelkova leaf close up and I think mine is chinese elm as you said. the zelkova seems to have pointier seration. this is my leaf.

 

[Bonsai Babby]

I looked at the pictures and I'm very confident you have a Chinese elm - Ulmus parvifolia. Leaves, bark colour and growth habit are all consistent with Chinese elm.

What is one tapering chop?
With Chinese elm I'd usually just chop at the point I want new branches to start. You may get 1 or 2 shoots from the trunk but most new buds will form from the cambium layer around the top of the cut. As those develop you'll need to remove some to encourage the best ones and avoid a repeat of the ball/knot you currently have.
I agree that chop in Spring would be good. In the meantime, feed and water well to build up strength so you'll get a better response to the chop. It currently doesn't look real healthy so plenty of TLC until dormancy.

By tapering chop I meant chop it 2 inches tall, let the leader grow for a year, chop the leader at 1-2 inches, let it grow, repeat, so that the trunk gets successively thinner. I unfortunately neglected this poor guy and left it in his little pot without a soil change for 3+ years so I think that is why it is not very healthy right now. I just repotted it but I am gonna put it into a large grow bin in a few weeks and leave it until next spring.

 

[Shibui]

I just repotted it but I am gonna put it into a large grow bin in a few weeks and leave it until next spring.

CA might be just warm enough for potting into a large tub over winter to make a little difference. Normally not worth doing because trees are dormant all winter so no growth, even in a big pot.

By tapering chop I meant chop it 2 inches tall, let the leader grow for a year, chop the leader at 1-2 inches, let it grow, repeat, so that the trunk gets successively thinner.

That's one way to develop a trunk. I'd do this if I wanted to develop an informal upright style tree. Successive chops like this can also give us bends in the trunk that look way better than the S shaped curves we normally get with wired bends.
Another style option, especially for elms is 'broom' style. Vertical trunk with branches all coming out from the top of the trunk and growing upward to form an umbrella canopy. This style is a very common natural shape for many deciduous trees and probably looks most like a 'tree' to many people. Broom style is often achieved by chopping a Chinese elm trunk at the height we want the branches to start. New buds grow from the top of the cut. As they grow, select 2, 3 or maybe 4 to be the main branches. Train these up and out. Successive chops of the branches makes those ramify into more and more smaller branches to form the entire canopy.

You will definitely get a better result with any of the above if your tree is fully healthy. It might take a year or 2 of good care for the tree to return to full health. New soil, more space for roots, adequate fertiliser and water are all important.
I know it may seem like a long time but probably better to postpone all the plans for chops and styling until the tree is healthy - maybe a year or 2. Bonsai is a long term project. A couple of years delay is really nothing in tree terms.

 

[Bonsai Babby]

CA might be just warm enough for potting into a large tub over winter to make a little difference. Normally not worth doing because trees are dormant all winter so no growth, even in a big pot.


That's one way to develop a trunk. I'd do this if I wanted to develop an informal upright style tree. Successive chops like this can also give us bends in the trunk that look way better than the S shaped curves we normally get with wired bends.
Another style option, especially for elms is 'broom' style. Vertical trunk with branches all coming out from the top of the trunk and growing upward to form an umbrella canopy. This style is a very common natural shape for many deciduous trees and probably looks most like a 'tree' to many people. Broom style is often achieved by chopping a Chinese elm trunk at the height we want the branches to start. New buds grow from the top of the cut. As they grow, select 2, 3 or maybe 4 to be the main branches. Train these up and out. Successive chops of the branches makes those ramify into more and more smaller branches to form the entire canopy.

You will definitely get a better result with any of the above if your tree is fully healthy. It might take a year or 2 of good care for the tree to return to full health. New soil, more space for roots, adequate fertiliser and water are all important.
I know it may seem like a long time but probably better to postpone all the plans for chops and styling until the tree is healthy - maybe a year or 2. Bonsai is a long term project. A couple of years delay is really nothing in tree terms.

Thanks very much for the thorough and thoughtful answer. Yes I am in San Diego, "winter" means it's 45-50 at night and 65 in the day, so not really cold. But my tree does drop all its leaves, they are currently red.

I think rather than successive chopping to make a wild curving tapered trunk, for this elm, a broom would be best. But I'll think about it. I have a year or two to decide! I have a few more babies on the way... manzanita, black pine, hime shojo Japanese red maple, and tamukeyama Japanese maple. They are all young plants so I am going to let them grow out for a while, but if I want curvy tapered trunks, one of those might be more suited for it.