What are your thoughts on pond baskets?

[drip]

I despise them. I tried them for a few growing seasons years ago with pines, junipers and Chinese elms. This is what I remember:

1. Unstable physically until roots grew into the ground (at which point the expressed intent of the pond basket is defeated)
2. Roots need to grow out and around, but mesh sides result in root dieback because the outside walls are constantly dry.
3. Watering needs are very inconsistent. Wind and sun have extra effect and one side always seems to fare worse.
4. Finally potting out of pond baskets showed I had roots down into the ground, and a core around the base of the trunk that had nothing to advance the development of nebari.

Anderson flats are superior, since they have structured sides, are wider and shallower to allow better root growth outward, and a mesh bottom that allow some escape for explosive growth, but without sacrificing the roots in the container.

For trunk thickening, you would recommend switching to anderson flats then even if its shallower? I just looked them up and they seem very shallow unless I'm looking at the wrong one. Which one do you recommend? So you see no benefit to using pond baskets in any stage of bonsai correct? Considering I won't be ground growing, I would just perform the repotting process back into the same anderson flat?

 

[jeremy_norbury]

Ohh cool, so you use them to thicken trunks as well? What size basket are you using?

Yes.

• I made raised beds filled with growing substrate and place them in that, pushing them down into the substrate. They grow through but I don't let them go for more than a couple of months prior to lifting them.
• The beds are front left and front right in this photo and 90% of the trees in there are in pond baskets. There are roughly 120 plants in the left bed and 100 in the right bed, You can see that many other trees are also in pond baskets on the benches. IMG_7664 by Jerry Norbury, on Flickr
• I use various sizes: The smallest 13cm square ones, 14cm rounds, 19cm square, 20cm round and 23cm square.
• I got super lucky a few years ago and managed to buy the entire stock of a garden center which was closing down - bought 1,100 14cm pond baskets for €50/55...

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

For trunk thickening, you would recommend switching to anderson flats then even if its shallower? I just looked them up and they seem very shallow unless I'm looking at the wrong one. Which one do you recommend? So you see no benefit to using pond baskets in any stage of bonsai correct? Considering I won't be ground growing, I would just perform the repotting process back into the same anderson flat?

Yes, especially because they’re shallower. Trunks spread out in shallow pots. I do not use pond baskets for anything.
Once you get the roots right, you should be able to leave a tree in an Anderson flat to grow out for several years. After 2-3 years, you will start to see some trunk thickening in most species.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

What do you guys think about using pond baskets and has anyone had success with them?

I truly use them by the hundreds - for smaller trees. However I keep all my pond baskets on bonsai shelves.

For larger trees I use the Anderson flats that @Brian Van Fleet mentions above.

Zum beispiel.... (for example, auf Deutsch) Cork bark elm cuttings...

 

[drip]

Yes, especially because they’re shallower. Trunks spread out in shallow pots. I do not use pond baskets for anything.
Once you get the roots right, you should be able to leave a tree in an Anderson flat to grow out for several years. After 2-3 years, you will start to see some trunk thickening in most species.
View attachment 611606

Thanks! I'll probably swap to those anderson flats then, since I'm planning to keep my collection small. Do you think its a good idea to move my japanese maple, currently in a 5 gal nursery pot, into an anderson flat next spring, then to a bonsai pot? Also do you have any recommendations for literature or youtube videos for improving nebari on a JM, this will be my first time repotting it so I want to study up to keep it on a good path. There are 3 thick roots spread out on one side, nothing on the back side, not sure how to go about that or is there nothing I can really do? And most of my other trees are young so how would I develop the nebari optimally?

 

[drip]

I truly use them by the hundreds - for smaller trees. However I keep all my pond baskets on bonsai shelves.

For larger trees I use the Anderson flats that @Brian Van Fleet mentions above.

Gotcha, what is considered small and large trees for you? I think I'm aiming for most of my trees to end at 12-20 inches tall.

 

[Eckhoffw]

My 2 cents.
Pond baskets are cheap and available almost anywhere. I use them frequently and heel the trees in the ground.
The roots do need to be addressed about every two years I feel it’s the next best thing to growing in the ground. You can still easily dig up the pond basket when needed.

Nursery cans only allow escape roots through the bottom holes. Pond baskets allow roots to escape anywhere.

Anderson flats are wonderful but cost a lot more. My big trees get the Anderson flat treatment to help develop a flat radial root system.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I agree with @Brian Van Fleet - Anderson Flats are the way to go. Most bonsai pots available are less than 5 inches in depth. (except cascades) The Anderson flat is 15 x 15 x 5 and I usually only fill the media to the 4 or even 3 inch level depending on what I'm raising.

I like Anderson Flats enough that I bought a case of 50 some years back. They are durable, and most are in use in one way or another.

 

[yesimnathan]

Building wooden grow boxes is a good option too. You can make them whatever size you want and attach mesh or slats to the bottom. I plan on building some boxes for my trees this winter (winter project). Probably ~18x18x5

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Gotcha, what is considered small and large trees for you? I think I'm aiming for most of my trees to end at 12-20 inches tall.

You have to think about what pond baskets do for you. They work well if you want a ton of drainage. You will never get root rot with a tree in a pond basket. If you have a garden with automated sprinklers - pond baskets will work well because you can't overwater.

I have found (in NC) that they leave the roots more exposed than I would like over the winter. Your soil will dry much more quickly. Depending on your soil mix, you may find the pond baskets don't provide enough protection on hot, dry summer days.

It really comes down to a lot of factors...

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Building wooden grow boxes is a good option too. You can make them whatever size you want and attach mesh or slats to the bottom. I plan on building some boxes for my trees this winter (winter project). Probably ~18x18x5

Those are even better than Anderson Flats. Something about the wood really promotes good root growth. Maybe it has better air exchange.

 

[Zac]

I hear and read all the time how pond baskets are the way to go especially for pines and junipers. I bought my first JBP's a couple weeks ago they are 3-5 years old so been doing research on them. I've read that I should but them in 6 inch pond baskets with well draining inorganic soil. I'm worried about them drying out since I work long hours and my yard is in full sun all day and summers here are hot and dry. My other trees are in organic soil and they dry out and need water every day unless there's storms. I'm also worried about the roots in winter in pond baskets since it gets cold here. I heel my trees in with mulch up against the house. Does anyone use them in zone 6-7 in PA? Or are the wood grow boxes or Anderson flats better for JBP's also?

 

[drip]

Looks like I’m switching all my trees to anderson flats next spring. Thanks everyone. So do deeper nursery pots have no other benefit to anderson flats other than moisture retention?

 

[penumbra]

I have over 50 in use at any given time. Love them and wouldn't do without them. Proof is in my results so if you don't concur, that is fine with me.

 

[drip]

I have over 50 in use at any given time. Love them and wouldn't do without them. Proof is in my results so if you don't concur, that is fine with me.

No hate on pond baskets, I use them, just wondering if there was anything to speed up trunk thickening and nebari, do you do the entire development process in a pond basket?

 

[The Barber]

I prefer Anderson Flats over the pond baskets as well. I generally pot up my collected trees in a pretty airy 100 percent small to semi coarse pumice, and pond baskets seem to dry out dangerously fast on me compared to anderson flats. The Anderson flats get watered only once per day and in shade that is enough even in 90 degree weather ( almost every day this summer has been 90°F+) and the trees love it, even the water loving hornbeams. My pines love the pond baskets though and assume junipers would love them as well. When potted with a fine soil pond baskets work great, and dry out much slower but definitely worth noting that a very airy mix of soil gets dry far too fast for deciduous if you use a semi coarse soil.

 

[drip]

I prefer Anderson Flats over the pond baskets as well. I generally pot up my collected trees in a pretty airy 100 percent small to semi coarse pumice, and pond baskets seem to dry out dangerously fast on me compared to anderson flats. The Anderson flats get watered only once per day and in shade that is enough even in 90 degree weather ( almost every day this summer has been 90°F+) and the trees love it, even the water loving hornbeams. My pines love the pond baskets though and assume junipers would love them as well. When potted with a fine soil pond baskets work great, and dry out much slower but definitely worth noting that a very airy mix of soil gets dry far too fast for deciduous if you use a semi coarse soil.

Ok makes sense, this summer I was watering 1-3 times a day, sometimes 4 during the heatwave. In a mix of lava/pumice/akadama, pretty coarse. They are all deciduous too LOL. First year bonsai, learning a lot and it feels like I still don't know what I'm doing.

 

[AGentleman]

I tried to dm as i don’t want to clutter up the thread more than necessary, but I’m to new to be trusted with that function
I’m in norway where we don’t have lowes or home depot, so I’m not familiar with either, but my impression is that it’s more or less a hardware store?

When you say «the pond section» do you mean that literally, like there’s a section for stuff for your little water-filled hole?

I don’t know what I was thinking before, but it never struck me that pond basket was literally something used in ponds. I guess I’ll have to look for a different kind of local shop. To bad neither bonsai or ponds are popular around here

Hi Dotme,
I am a beginner so take my advice with that warning.
You can use cheap plastic colanders from a discount shop. We call them $2 stores in Australia. I think they're called dime stores in USA. It's the kind of shop that sells a lot of random bad quality stuff cheaply.
Also to note that I have just potted almost all my trees (sticks) into colanders and pond baskets and have found that they are concerningly flexible as Brian Van Fleet said. I feel that every time I pick up a pot (colander) I'm breaking new roots.
Sorry to clutter up the thread.
Greg

 

[oranjeaap]

I think they're unsightly especially when the moss and the other green stuff starts growing on the sides. But they're cheap, available everywhere and work well if you understand what to (not) use them for.
I've never seen Andertons flats in any store near me so the choice for me is simple.

 

[Manbris]

Yes.

• I made raised beds filled with growing substrate and place them in that, pushing them down into the substrate. They grow through but I don't let them go for more than a couple of months prior to lifting them.
• The beds are front left and front right in this photo and 90% of the trees in there are in pond baskets. There are roughly 120 plants in the left bed and 100 in the right bed, You can see that many other trees are also in pond baskets on the benches. IMG_7664 by Jerry Norbury, on Flickr
• I use various sizes: The smallest 13cm square ones, 14cm rounds, 19cm square, 20cm round and 23cm square.
• I got super lucky a few years ago and managed to buy the entire stock of a garden center which was closing down - bought 1,100 14cm pond baskets for €50/55...

Great pic and very nice setup.

Does the inner branch die back? Do you find airflow an issue? Any insects? Why not let them grown for longer in the bed like a year or two?