What size Bonsai pot for this Deshojo? Any help appreciated.

[bennybonsai]

Hi guys!

Could someone please tell me what sort of size Bonsai pot I should be using? Its 34cm from the bottom of the pot to the top of the tree. The is in 7.5cm deep soil. I want to over the space of 10-15 years double the trees size or more if I can. But I don't want to put it in a big garden pot or field grow it, so yeah with that I mind I'd like to know what size pot to go with and if I can cut 10% or 20% of the bottom roots off or not?

Thanks I advance.

 

[Gabler]

I'm not sure I understand the question. If you want the tree to get bigger, use a bigger container or put it in the ground. If you want the tree to stay the same size, keep it in a bonsai pot.

 

[RJG2]

Hi guys!

Could someone please tell me what sort of size Bonsai pot I should be using? Its 34cm from the bottom of the pot to the top of the tree. The is in 7.5cm deep soil. I want to over the space of 10-15 years double the trees size or more if I can. But I don't want to put it in a big garden pot or field grow it, so yeah with that I mind I'd like to know what size pot to go with and if I can cut 10% or 20% of the bottom roots off or not?

Thanks I advance.View attachment 582549

"Generally" you can do a pot with a width of about 2/3 the height of the tree (base of tree to the top).

Japanese maples are usually in pretty shallow pots. Whatever you think looks good.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

If the goal is to make this tree a bonsai, would decidedly not put this tree in a bonsai pot. It will slow down any development…. and it’s still in very early developmental stage, right from the nursery.

To create a bonsai this tree needs a tapered trunk, appropriate branching and nebari creation. Would at least get a start on the roots, while working the top hamper.

Or, the tree can go in a bonsai pot….

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[Shibui]

and if I can cut 10% or 20% of the bottom roots off or not?

No problem cutting off 10-20% of roots with Japanese maple. I usually remove 60-80% of roots of Japanese maples with no problem.
Japanese maple bonsai feature spreading surface roots. To get good surface roots you'll need to examine roots closely and trim them. Remove any deep roots completely. Shorten or remove tangled roots, crossing roots and uneven roots to leave a single level of horizontal roots radiating out from the trunk. This initial root prune is best done early, before the problem roots get too thick.
Contrary to popular belief, root pruning does not slow growth. It usually stimulates more growth the following Spring and Summer.

Could someone please tell me what sort of size Bonsai pot I should be using? Its 34cm from the bottom of the pot to the top of the tree. The is in 7.5cm deep soil. I want to over the space of 10-15 years double the trees size or more if I can.

I prefer to keep developing trees in nursery pots but if you're keen to use a bonsai style pot to develop this tree I'd go for something that's as big as you can manage. As deep as the current pot would be good and maybe 30cm long as a minimum. Anything smaller and your 10-15 year development program to double the trunk could turn into 20-30 years but that's obviously going to depend how well it's cared for, fertilised and how often you repot. (during the growing phase I find that regular repotting increases growth while leaving it in the same pot for years will definitely slow growth.

As a beginner you probably have not noticed the problems your JM is developing. We can offer advice if you want to hear.

 

[bennybonsai]

If the goal is to make this tree a bonsai, would decidedly not put this tree in a bonsai pot. It will slow down any development…. and it’s still in very early developmental stage, right from the nursery.

To create a bonsai this tree needs a tapered trunk, appropriate branching and nebari creation. Would at least get a start on the roots, while working the top hamper.

Or, the tree can go in a bonsai pot….

Cheers
DSD sends

Yes the goal is to be a Bonsai. I'm just eager to get it into at least a nice looking pot. I don't mind it being in a bigger pot. Does a tapered trunk not develop over years? I also want to start on root work so would need to take it out of this pot. What pot would you suggest I put it in? I'm going to be putting it in akadama, pummice, and lava, what ratio would you recvomend? Many thanks DSD

 

[bennybonsai]

No problem cutting off 10-20% of roots with Japanese maple. I usually remove 60-80% of roots of Japanese maples with no problem.
Japanese maple bonsai feature spreading surface roots. To get good surface roots you'll need to examine roots closely and trim them. Remove any deep roots completely. Shorten or remove tangled roots, crossing roots and uneven roots to leave a single level of horizontal roots radiating out from the trunk. This initial root prune is best done early, before the problem roots get too thick.
Contrary to popular belief, root pruning does not slow growth. It usually stimulates more growth the following Spring and Summer.


I prefer to keep developing trees in nursery pots but if you're keen to use a bonsai style pot to develop this tree I'd go for something that's as big as you can manage. As deep as the current pot would be good and maybe 30cm long as a minimum. Anything smaller and your 10-15 year development program to double the trunk could turn into 20-30 years but that's obviously going to depend how well it's cared for, fertilised and how often you repot. (during the growing phase I find that regular repotting increases growth while leaving it in the same pot for years will definitely slow growth.

As a beginner you probably have not noticed the problems your JM is developing. We can offer advice if you want to hear.

Okay Shibui many thanks for your comments. That's good that I can take of a fair bit of the roots. I'm going to be changing the media to akadama, pummice, and lava. What ratio would you reccomend?

When you say regular reports how often do you mean? Also do you mean just changing the soil or root work every time. Lets say I put it in the suggested pot size you mentioned above, what would you consider regular repotting? Once a year? Is that soil change and root work?

I would love to hear any advice you have to have to give as I have noticed any problems. (Maybe the last Cutts have not been cleaned up)

Cheers,
Ben

 

[RJG2]

Did deep into the forum and other places to learn the development techniques. I'm not very experienced with JM development (yet), but there are plenty here that are - @Shibui especially.

I really like @clem's technique and results (large shallow boxes). Ill get you started:

https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/acer-palmatum-beni-chidori-from-cutting.42619/

https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/acer-palmatum-beni-tsukasa-from-cutting.42617/

https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/acer-palmatum-katsura-5-trunks-from-cutting.42414/

 

[Juanmi]

When you say regular reports how often do you mean? Also do you mean just changing the soil or root work every time. Lets say I put it in the suggested pot size you mentioned above, what would you consider regular repotting? Once a year? Is that soil change and root work?

Repotting on a tree on development is done usually every 2 years, doing root pruning as well every repot. keep in mind that this is not a strict rule and you must take in consideration if the tree is in good health, if it has had a good growth or not, etc.
The main reason for repotting is to take care of the rootball, cutting the non essential roots and forming a nebari. Once the structure of the nebari is established some would say that you should only repot when necessary, once there is no more room for the roots to grow inside the pot (you will notice that the tree starts lifting from the pot)

 

[Juanmi]

I would love to hear any advice you have to have to give as I have noticed any problems.

Now the main problems your tree migh have are obviously design problems (not really PROBLEMS, because it is young material and just you will have to work with it)

1. No trunk taper.
2. No trunk movement.

As it is now is like a cylinder. You would like to have a nice fat bottom, and an elegant slim apex.

You can achieve this by cutting and letting grow a new leader again and again. It is a cycle, you will have to do this over the years to come.

When letting grow the new leader you'll have to guide it (or not, you can let nature do its thing) in order to give movement to the trunk.

3. Branches positioning.

Traditionally, you want to have the branches on the exterior of the curves for aesthetic reasons, but also you want to avoid having more that one branch growing from the same point, or it will cause a bulge.

Same as the trunk, you want to have taper and movement on the branches. Clio an let grow. The position and direction of the branches are also important. On the lower branches they will look more natural if they are more or less parallel to the ground, as they can grow more in an angle as they are closer to the apex.

Those are just a few guidelines, but you should have a plan, you might want to follow the rules or go against them, but you should know what are you doing and why are you doing it. What style do you want to form your tree? What size?

As for design decisions (dos and don'ts) I always recommend the John Naka book. I think it's called "Bonsai Techniques". You can easily find it online.

Also these are some suggestions for the next repotting.



I hope this was more helpful than confusing. English is not my main language.

 

[bennybonsai]

Okay thanks for all the advice Juanmi! It's much appreciated. What do the blue and red lines mean in the photos above? Are the red lines where I should cut it?

 

[Juanmi]

Oops, sorry, I forgot to specify.

Red line = you cut here
Blue line = Trunk line

 

[bennybonsai]

Awesome thanks. If I cut the two off in the bottom picture it will only have branches on the left will it not?

 

[bennybonsai]

Or would I grow a new leader at the top to the right and another half way down? Sorry

 

[bennybonsai]

I understand now. I think I prefer the bottom one. Would I cut right next to the trunk? Sorry again

 

[Juanmi]

Oh, something important I forgot to mention about japanese maples : they will only grow new shoots from the internodes. That means that you want to get rid of any section with long internodes, that's why I think you should ultimately cut the right branch completely next to the trunk, and the left branch on after the first internode. On the left branch it would be wise to leave maybe 1 or 2 centimetres for dieback, and once the tree has grown on the internode, you could cut the dried part.

 

[Juanmi]

However, on this stage of development you shouldn't worry too much about the branches, maybe the first and second, the main thing now is getting the trunk structure, branches come and go, they will grow, or you can always graft.

 

[bennybonsai]

Okay but On the bottom suggestion don't I leave the two branches on the left? So the top left being the new leader?

 

[Juanmi]

Okay but On the bottom suggestion don't I leave the two branches on the left? So the top left being the new leader?

Exactly, the top left branch would be the new leader (and that same branch is split in two smaller branches, so the one on the right could be a new leader)
I would still cut the bottom left branch (even if I didn't put a red line on that picture) leaving a stump after the first internode so it can grow again and develop some taper and movement and sub-branches

 

[bennybonsai]

Okay cool. So like this? Would I leave the one on the left opposite the new leader? And would I leave the new leader or wire it to bend slightly to the right for movement? Would you use concave cutters for these cuts? It's fine to do the Cuts repot and root cut at once or not? Sorry for so many questions.