Cruiser
Omono
Let’s hear about those fresh/weird/controversial/good bonsai ideas and side projects.
What are you trying/doing that’s new, uncommon, or unusual?
- Thread starter Cruiser
- Start date
pandacular
Masterpiece
I was chatting with a bonsai friend this past spring and he told me that he thinks every hobbyist should go deep into one particular native that others haven’t explored. His choice has been Populus trichocarpa, the black cottonwood. The argument was simple: we need all hands on deck to find good native species for bonsai, and people should try the ones that are readily availble to them, for free.
For myself, I’m planning to lean into working on locally available alders, because they are such fast growers and I like the leaf shape.
For myself, I’m planning to lean into working on locally available alders, because they are such fast growers and I like the leaf shape.
Michael P
Omono
I am growing a group of Mexican plum Prunus mexicana for a forest to be assembled in late winter next year.
Cruiser
Omono
Strongly agree. There are lots of good reasons to go with native species. Adaptation to local climate and pathogens, availability, celebrating your part of the world, good natural examples to see in person…
I too am dabbling with alders, but not leaning in as heavily as with other natives. Have you had any ah ha! moments?
Has your friend seen any success in reducing cottonwood foliage and bud sizes?
Cruiser
Omono
Seems like a good choice for your part of the world. Do your trees produce fruit yet?
Orion_metalhead
Masterpiece
Further experimenting with organic soil mixes.
My experience so far is that greenwaste compost can be a good alternative as a moisture and nutrient holding component.
Also agree on the natives. I am working Liriodendron Tulipifera, Acer Negundo, and various others.
My experience so far is that greenwaste compost can be a good alternative as a moisture and nutrient holding component.
Also agree on the natives. I am working Liriodendron Tulipifera, Acer Negundo, and various others.
Michael P
Omono
No, they are only a few years old and have not flowered yet.
pandacular
Masterpiece
Not too many, besides that they like to pushed hard—lots of water, frequent cutbacks, and a watchful eye on wire. They will drop inner leaves if they’re shaded out, so you need to either partially defoliate or cut back often.
I’m not sure; it seems most of his are fairly young and he said he felt it was too early to worry about leaf size. He’s also on the forum though, so I’ll let him speak to that if he comes across this thread.
I think deciduous natives are especially a category that need exploration, as we have a number of conifers and broadleaf evergreens that I feel compete with the top picks from Japan, but very few deciduous species, at least that are in wide use across North America.
I'm experimenting with using large amounts of charcoal in my substrate. I'm one of the knuckle-draggers still using turface and organics. The charcoal should hold some water and air without breaking down like most other organics.
Kievnstavick
Chumono
I haven't grown any old enough to really play with, but I plan on expirementing with a handful of natives. Serviceberry (Amelanchier alnifolia) and Sitka Spruce are the main natives I am expirementing with.
Any Aldars I have are volunteers. One 3 year old Red Aldar has grown 6 ft tall after a hard chop to the first three nodes mid-spring. John Eads has had some experience with Aldars as well.
ralfish
Sapling
Strongly agree, at least with growing native to whatever region someone is in. I have western red cedars, black cottonwoods, d firs, alder western and mtn hemlocks. Most are in early development though a couple of hemlocks are in refinement. The cottons wood is going octopus style, at least that's how it was translated on Bonsai Q some episodes ago. just a skinny whip wired and continuously twisted back onto itself. Eventually it grows into itself and bonds. You get an interesting looking tree pretty quickly in the mame size. Just for shits and giggles, i have done a lot of apple suckers into the same thing. All done in the last year so really cant say much other than if they flower they will look great. Even at this early stage some already look ok as evidenced by some lovely lady stealing a few of them. Another project is collecting roadside flail mowed yamadori. P. Contorta, western hemlock, d firs, cottonwoods and alders are all available in my area. The cottonwood s havent survived transplant as they send out huge amount of roots in this area, (they are growing in road base sitting mostly on blast rock). Same with the alders. Some of these trees have been mowed several times so are no more than a foot tall and have a spread of several feet. multiple trunks. in the right hands the material could be quite interesting.. I have one small alder that was flail mowed once so the roots werent too hard to all get. The leaves are maybe 30% of typical size. I just collected this tree this late winter so i havent done anything other than knock back some branches that wanted to take off. The firs have trunks that are about 4-9 inches tall and are anywhere from an inch to a couple inches in diameter. Then a chop, with a bunch of random branches sprouting. Its great material to start with not a bad thickness for a trunk. sometimes there's a branch that could become the new leader, so they are in early development for a small shohin sized tree or maybe even smaller. dfirs are prolific back budders and will push at least a couple times a year when induced. The western hemlocks will push 3 times from what Ive seen. Interesting stuff and I dont cry when I make fatal errors. The first pic is one of the d. firs. Ive had it for about 1 and a half years. The second pic is a collection ( I have a lot more) of apple and a cottonwood, octopus style as per what I saw on Bonsai Q. I dont have pics of the alder.
Attachments
Cajunrider
Imperial Masterpiece
I dunno. I am about as mundane as it gets. People here have seen a lot of my projects.
Flowerhouse
Chumono
I am messing about with Robinia neomexicana. The 10 or so plants I have were grown from seed in 2021(?). 5 of them have bloomed and have lovely pink flowers. They seem to like free draining bonsai soil, hold shape when I wire them. Wicked thorns that I clip off. They winter outside with the other natives. Not sure where we're going, but it has been fun to play with them.
Joe Dupre'
Masterpiece
I'm trying a native muscadine in the ground to fatten it up. It has filled up a 3 foot x 5 foot area of trellis with vines so far this year. I am using bigger pots for everything, also. A pot that holds twice as much soil does not appear to be nearly as obvious as you might imagine.
Cruiser
Omono
All those beautiful bcs and no tinkering? I figured you would be unlocking the mysteries of knees. That’s probably a whole other thread in itself.
MaciekA
Shohin
I'm growing populus trichocarpa. One of my teachers (Andrew Robson) is diving into p. trichocarpa as well, so with his much larger collected trunks and superior growing setup / skills I hope we can more quickly figure out what can be expected from cottonwood in terms of making and keeping nice detailed branches.
Following the spirit of @Cruiser 's thread, some notes.
Black cottonwood (and probably the close-ish relatives like eastern cottonwood and fremont cottonwood and other poplars) is more technically challenging to figure out than a species like Japanese Maple. I would mainly grow it if you have a strong personal love for these species in the natural environment (eg: high desert cottonwoods for me) and I wouldn't grow it if your priority is a highly-predictable response from techniques learned on other species. In populus there are better leaf shapes (trembling aspen, black poplar, fremont cottonwood, eastern cottonwood all have nicer leaf shapes with more stable morphology). Similar to black pine, it takes a lot of ramification and maturing in a black cottonwood to get the leaf size and leaf shape to stabilize globally. Leaf shape is strongly affected by local vigor. Mature leaves look like wide/stumpy aspen leaves. Immature/vigorous leaves look like skinny/elongated willow leaves. So IMO this species is better if you are after a winter display, especially in the earlier years. One interesting side note is that this species is found all over the planet even though it's a US west coast native. If you are in northern europe you're probably never far from a black cottonwood that you could propagate via cuttings (check the iNaturalist map). They even have them in Iceland.
Growth stuff:
- Cuttings of all shapes and sizes will root at various times of year. 1 inch cuttings, 48 inch cuttings. Or a 5 foot branch chopped into 1-2 inch cuttings like a sausage.
- Full defoliation works well at stimulating a robust response, even on cuttings
- Partial defoliation (whether leaf removal or leaf cutting) works less well at stimulating a robust response
- Barking up to the rougher form happens fast
- Wounds close quickly if the tree is vigorous, kirikuchi works
- Pinching works and I can pinch continuously through a summer
- Sucker growth is a danger to canopy sustainability, esp. in the 12-24 months after a major stress (post-collection, big cutback, etc). The longer in training the less suckers are an issue. Suckers must be removed or aggressively pinched as they happen
- Balancing out your work generally (pruning/wiring/pinching intensities vs. leftover extensions) so that strong parts don't weaken weak parts is key
If you're liking the red alder @pandacular , see if you can find sitka alder. Look for more serrated/shiny-waxy leaves. I often find lots of seedlings of this species growing in straight pumice along creeks at higher elevations (~4000ft), it feels like an alder that might like pond basket life in an urban setting and bonsai horticulture.
This year I rooted a bucket of populus nigra (black poplar), which seems to root from cuttings easily much like cottonwood does. These are found all over the PNW and the trunk bases are usually covered with basal suckers so it's easy to harvest cuttings for forests.
MaciekA
Shohin
Yes, it is kinda black pine though, in that you get wide variability on leaf size (and even shape) based on local-to-branch vigor. Leaf size in black cottonwood varies from well over a foot long all the way down to about thumb-print size. It is very reducible in that anyone can prove it out quickly on their own, but: The time consuming part is to ramify the canopy and roots to get that response consistently. AFAIK the only cottonwoods around are all less than 10 years in development so we'll see how that goes.
The quickest way to preview tiny leaf sizes in cottonwood is to develop a few cuttings in tiny (fist-sized at most) terra cotta pots of small-grain akadama right from the beginning. The smallest leaf form tends to be an almond shape. I have never seen the more mature form (aspen-style / heart shape) in the tinest cottonwood leaf results yet, and you also don't see the narrow willow form in the tinest size either. Just the almond form.
Another way to "preview" (i.e. before your ramification reliably yields it on its own) the small leaf size earlier is to aggressively defoliate a stronger tree. With my most valuable trunk, I have only done partial defoliations or leaf size reduction since there is still much primary branch building to go. But I've taken some of the suckers as cuttings, rooted those into larger flats, and defoliated those once they were vigorous. And that response growth does yield finer growth lines afterwards.
For me part of the appeal of this species is the challenge of making it work and using it to verify that my understanding of deciduous techniques is grounded in reality. I suspect every region has one of those species -- grows like a bastard locally, tricky to figure out, but worth it if you're in it to figure out how the machine works.
pandacular
Masterpiece
I don’t know black cottonwood, are you talking about balsam poplar?
