How long are Japanese maple seeds viable for if dried ((F. W. Schumacher and Sheffield's seed: for example list some as old as 2007 (dry ))

[tigerscott79]

So hoping to start some Japanese maple seeds like Acer Palmatum, Acer Japonicum, Acer Shirasawanum. How viable are the dried seeds from companies like "F. W. Schumacher and Sheffield's seed" I know they are dry and stored well. that or does anyone know of other sources as well or fresh seed sources?.

 

[TrevorLarsen]

From what other people have said on here the dry JM seeds don’t germinate well and have a low success rate. I only buy the fresh green seed based on their advice.

 

[tigerscott79]

From what other people have said on here the dry JM seeds don’t germinate well and have a low success rate. I only buy the fresh green seed based on their advice.

darn , wonder if there is anything fresh available all i see on sites atm are dry and older seeds . thanks for heads up

 

[Kievnstavick]

I couldn't really find anything on Google scholar to help out in this case and I am just a guy on the internet, so take the following with a healthy portion of salt.

If maple seeds exhibit orthodox seed behavior (I believe they are orthodox, but the research papers I looked at didn't actually specify) then they can be stored in the right conditions for a very long period of time. The germination rate of the seeds will go down over time, but it shouldn't be a significant change.

Sheffield's lists some of their dry seeds at an estimated germination rate of (at the lowest) 70% for seeds collect in 2010ish using their cut method. Now I don't know if that number has been updated recently, but if they are following US law then the viable seeds should be tested within 12 months of sale. Assuming a worst case scenario, I'd wager your actual germination would lie somewhere around 50%.

Buying 200 some odd seeds with a 50% germination rate for $12 doesn't sound bad at all to me. Unless you are trying to grow a lot of trees, this should be more then enough.

What I did find on Google scholar (although it was a summary and I couldn't find out how to read the article) stated that the researchers found dry seeds to need a longer stratification period or a need to scarify the seed coating in order to reduce the stratification to a significantly short amount of time.

What I can infer from that is dry seeds will need a bit more work to germinate over fresh seeds. Unfortunately, the time to buy and plant fresh maple seeds has already been well and passed.

So for now you can either wait another 7-9 months, buy dry seeds (if you can fulfill the stratification requirements with the time left in your winter understanding that you already have a low germination rate on), or buy some from the southern hemisphere when their seeds are ready (that's a whole other bag of kittens I'd rather not get into)

From my own experience, I have collected and dried seeds from a variety of Acer species in my area in the past. I planted them and have had quite a few of the germinate. I couldn't tell you the germination rate as I didn't keep track, but some of them grew.

 

[tigerscott79]

I couldn't really find anything on Google scholar to help out in this case and I am just a guy on the internet, so take the following with a healthy portion of salt.

If maple seeds exhibit orthodox seed behavior (I believe they are orthodox, but the research papers I looked at didn't actually specify) then they can be stored in the right conditions for a very long period of time. The germination rate of the seeds will go down over time, but it shouldn't be a significant change.

Sheffield's lists some of their dry seeds at an estimated germination rate of (at the lowest) 70% for seeds collect in 2010ish using their cut method. Now I don't know if that number has been updated recently, but if they are following US law then the viable seeds should be tested within 12 months of sale. Assuming a worst case scenario, I'd wager your actual germination would lie somewhere around 50%.

Buying 200 some odd seeds with a 50% germination rate for $12 doesn't sound bad at all to me. Unless you are trying to grow a lot of trees, this should be more then enough.

What I did find on Google scholar (although it was a summary and I couldn't find out how to read the article) stated that the researchers found dry seeds to need a longer stratification period or a need to scarify the seed coating in order to reduce the stratification to a significantly short amount of time.

What I can infer from that is dry seeds will need a bit more work to germinate over fresh seeds. Unfortunately, the time to buy and plant fresh maple seeds has already been well and passed.

So for now you can either wait another 7-9 months, buy dry seeds (if you can fulfill the stratification requirements with the time left in your winter understanding that you already have a low germination rate on), or buy some from the southern hemisphere when their seeds are ready (that's a whole other bag of kittens I'd rather not get into)

From my own experience, I have collected and dried seeds from a variety of Acer species in my area in the past. I planted them and have had quite a few of the germinate. I couldn't tell you the germination rate as I didn't keep track, but some of them grew.

Yea I really apreciate it . Only thing of note is with acer shirasawanum, ace palmatum, acer japcoicum (spelt thst wrong pretty sure) the seeds weren't 200 quality but rather 8 to 26 depending on which was bought. But yea I am only hoping at worst (or best ) maybe if able get 2 trees per pack od be happy or maybe even 1 since thst alone would be cost to buy sapling where I live (average Bloodgood seedling here is about 50to 150$ (usualy more ) just hopeful.

 

[leatherback]

Yea I really apreciate it . Only thing of note is with acer shirasawanum, ace palmatum, acer japcoicum (spelt thst wrong pretty sure) the seeds weren't 200 quality but rather 8 to 26 depending on which was bought. But yea I am only hoping at worst (or best ) maybe if able get 2 trees per pack od be happy or maybe even 1 since thst alone would be cost to buy sapling where I live (average Bloodgood seedling here is about 50to 150$ (usualy more ) just hopeful.

So, go ahead and give it a try. Germination WILL go down. But as you know they will be less viable, buy more seeds than you want plants. And if you end up with too many.. Sell them on.

You will need to "trigger" the seeds into waking up. I find Sheffields has good information in general, so I would follow their lead. This is what they advice for germinating older, dry stored japanese maple seeds:

- Price per 1 packet

For over 30 years we've supplied the BEST seed available in the World for our customers. We guarantee that all the seed we sell has been collected from the named mother plant. In most cases this means it will produce seedlings that are true to name.

sheffields.com

 

[Shibui]

I've read info that says maple seed is viable for a long time when stored correctly but maple seed enters deep dormancy after a year of dry storage. Even though the embryo is still viable it becomes increasingly difficult to break the dormancy so it can germinate.
Fresh seed will germinate without any treatment at all.
Stored seed needs to go through the warm/cool cycles to help break dormancy.

Buy seed if you need to but much easier and sure if you collect seed in autumn/winter. Surely there are trees in parks and gardens in your area? If none growing as landscape trees in your area then reconsider trying to grow them. There's usually a reason why they are not in the landscape.
Or get someone to collect some seed and send it to you.

 

[Kievnstavick]

- Price per 1 packet

The Acer palmatum ssp. matsumurae 'Bloodgood' Japanese Maple is a stunning addition to any garden. It boasts deep black-red leaves that last well into the summer, making for a beautiful and unique look. This red-leaved variety is hardier than its green-le

sheffields.com

At least with sheffield's you can order as much as they have in stock. From grams to lbs of this stuff. I am not sure about other sites.

Just for your information in case you are not aware, germinating a "bloodgood" seed does not mean you will get a "bloodgood" maple. When it comes to seeds, you will be playing the genetic lottery. You could get a Bloodgood, a random interesting (equally uninteresting) variety, or just a plain old standard Acer Palmatum.

Someone with more experience with planting seeds from cultivators might have a better idea of what to expect. With my limited experience with maple cultivars, I'd say if you want a Bloodgood maple it would be best to buy a Bloodgood from the nursery and use it as a motherplant.

 

[Shibui]

Just for your information in case you are not aware, germinating a "bloodgood" seed does not mean you will get a "bloodgood" maple. When it comes to seeds, you will be playing the genetic lottery. You could get a Bloodgood, a random interesting (equally uninteresting) variety, or just a plain old standard Acer Palmatum.

Good to point this out.
Just a clarification though: You can NEVER get a Bloodgood maple from Bloodgood seed (or any other named variety for that matter). Every seedling has a new and unique combination of genes so even when you get some seedlings with red leaves they will not be Bloodgood just as your children are not you, even if they have similar characteristics.
Asexual propagation is the only way to propagate named cultivars - cuttings, layers, grafting.

If you are not concerned with names it is fine to grow from seed. FYI, seed from red leaf cultivars produce more than 50% red leaf seedlings and most seedlings from weeping cut leaf maples have similar cut leaves but I get very few cut leaf maples from seed of 'Seryu'. Just remember no seedling should be given its parental name. Any seedling will be a new individual.

 

[tigerscott79]

- Price per 1 packet

The Acer palmatum ssp. matsumurae 'Bloodgood' Japanese Maple is a stunning addition to any garden. It boasts deep black-red leaves that last well into the summer, making for a beautiful and unique look. This red-leaved variety is hardier than its green-le

sheffields.com

At least with sheffield's you can order as much as they have in stock. From grams to lbs of this stuff. I am not sure about other sites.

Just for your information in case you are not aware, germinating a "bloodgood" seed does not mean you will get a "bloodgood" maple. When it comes to seeds, you will be playing the genetic lottery. You could get a Bloodgood, a random interesting (equally uninteresting) variety, or just a plain old standard Acer Palmatum.

Someone with more experience with planting seeds from cultivators might have a better idea of what to expect. With my limited experience with maple cultivars, I'd say if you want a Bloodgood maple it would be best to buy a Bloodgood from the nursery and use it as a motherplant.

View attachment 523205

Yea before my disabilities and epilepsy and seizures I worked on greenhouse and nursery so I'm decent on genetics and propagation just mainly with annuals and biennial and perennials, but ik trees bushes and such are simular on some aspects . Just wasn't super sturdy on what to expect as some species say nepenthes for example are only truly viable for 3 to 4 months and then drastically drop to 10% or even no viability afterwards and other seeds can be viable for centuries (if stored dry cool and in pottrty or ice) and since i was bit lost on the fresh and dry and different methods on germination kinda grr so asked here but I'm always greatful tobany advice as never to much info if it's true just means alot more to learn and grow with

 

[tigerscott79]

- Price per 1 packet

The Acer palmatum ssp. matsumurae 'Bloodgood' Japanese Maple is a stunning addition to any garden. It boasts deep black-red leaves that last well into the summer, making for a beautiful and unique look. This red-leaved variety is hardier than its green-le

sheffields.com

At least with sheffield's you can order as much as they have in stock. From grams to lbs of this stuff. I am not sure about other sites.

Just for your information in case you are not aware, germinating a "bloodgood" seed does not mean you will get a "bloodgood" maple. When it comes to seeds, you will be playing the genetic lottery. You could get a Bloodgood, a random interesting (equally uninteresting) variety, or just a plain old standard Acer Palmatum.

Someone with more experience with planting seeds from cultivators might have a better idea of what to expect. With my limited experience with maple cultivars, I'd say if you want a Bloodgood maple it would be best to buy a Bloodgood from the nursery and use it as a motherplant.

View attachment 523205

And indeed if after a cultivar or clone it's always best to buy grafted or own rooted cuttings or plants . Very very few plants come true to mother plant via seeds , some may carry majority of looks or growth type but rarely all.

 

[tigerscott79]

So, go ahead and give it a try. Germination WILL go down. But as you know they will be less viable, buy more seeds than you want plants. And if you end up with too many.. Sell them on.

You will need to "trigger" the seeds into waking up. I find Sheffields has good information in general, so I would follow their lead. This is what they advice for germinating older, dry stored japanese maple seeds:

- Price per 1 packet

For over 30 years we've supplied the BEST seed available in the World for our customers. We guarantee that all the seed we sell has been collected from the named mother plant. In most cases this means it will produce seedlings that are true to name.

sheffields.com

View attachment 523200

@19Mateo83 so customer service at sheffield got back to my query on a few things about the seeds hope is ok I am able post there reply (if not admin please remove and I apologize)

"
Hi Scott,

I see one of the items we have down for using hot tap water, but really room temperature will work on all of the Japanese maples. We understand seeing older crop years is a bit disconcerting. However, the way we store our seeds makes them not change for many, many years. We have seed from the 1990's that are still viable We do not do a grow test (unless someone complains then we grow it to make sure they are good or bad) on any of the ones your purchased, but we do cut tests to look at the embryo inside. We do list the germination rates listed on the labels, so not every seed will be viable just because it is hard to clean out the bad ones.

Also know that it will be about 8 months before you see any germination because of the long warm and then cold stratification. After that time frame, if nothing germinates for you please let us know (as long as our growing instructions were followed and they were not planted outside - we cannot help environmental factors or animal predation).

Let me know if you have any other questions!

Best,

Amanda"

With this I went ahead with small order and though will be next fall before they sprout or later summer I am going try on side of things . Fingers crossed maybe couple tiny ones grow at least a couple

 

[Nybonsai12]

Sheffields has a bunch of fresh collected seeds from last fall 2023, arakawa, deshojo, shirasawanum to name a few..if you keep checking new arrivals section you can see they update them almost daily.

 

[tigerscott79]

Sheffields has a bunch of fresh collected seeds from last fall 2023, arakawa, deshojo, shirasawanum to name a few..if you keep checking new arrivals section you can see they update them almost daily.

I hadn't seen any fresh in last few days . I'll keep checking though unless I missed some .

 

[tigerscott79]

Sheffields has a bunch of fresh collected seeds from last fall 2023, arakawa, deshojo, shirasawanum to name a few..if you keep checking new arrivals section you can see they update them almost daily.

Oh I see seriyu frwh but others say dry but listed as 2023 . So I think I get what your meaning fresher versus fresh green seed? Sorry learning alot

 

[Nybonsai12]

These are crops from 2023.. they are dried and not green or "fresh". But I'd still consider these to have high viability and germination rates. I've had good success with dried seeds as long as long as they are from the current year.

Sheffield's Seed Company

For over 30 years we've supplied the BEST seed available in the World for our customers. We guarantee that all the seed we sell has been collected from the named mother plant. In most cases this means it will produce seedlings that are true to name.

sheffields.com

Acer palmatum 'Deshojo' dry seed - Web page Navigation - Deshojo Japanese maple

Immerse yourself in the natural beauty of the Acer palmatum Deshojo, a time-honored upright Japanese Maple, best known for its vibrant red spring foliage. This mesmerizing tree has been cultivated for years, making it an excellent choice for those passion

sheffields.com

Acer shirasawanum 'Ogurayama' dry seed - Common Bonsai,Deciduous,Tree,Web page Navigation - Ogurayama Full Moon Maple

Acer shirasawanum 'Ogurayama', also known as Ogurayama Full Moon Maple, is a Japanese maple that is exceptionally cold-tolerant and is praised for its vibrant fall colors and robust growth. In the spring, it flourishes with medium-sized, olive-green folia

sheffields.com

 

[tigerscott79]

These are crops from 2023.. they are dried and not green or "fresh". But I'd still consider these to have high viability and germination rates. I've had good success with dried seeds as long as long as they are from the current year.

Sheffield's Seed Company

For over 30 years we've supplied the BEST seed available in the World for our customers. We guarantee that all the seed we sell has been collected from the named mother plant. In most cases this means it will produce seedlings that are true to name.

sheffields.com

Acer palmatum 'Deshojo' dry seed - Web page Navigation - Deshojo Japanese maple

Immerse yourself in the natural beauty of the Acer palmatum Deshojo, a time-honored upright Japanese Maple, best known for its vibrant red spring foliage. This mesmerizing tree has been cultivated for years, making it an excellent choice for those passion

sheffields.com

Acer shirasawanum 'Ogurayama' dry seed - Common Bonsai,Deciduous,Tree,Web page Navigation - Ogurayama Full Moon Maple

Acer shirasawanum 'Ogurayama', also known as Ogurayama Full Moon Maple, is a Japanese maple that is exceptionally cold-tolerant and is praised for its vibrant fall colors and robust growth. In the spring, it flourishes with medium-sized, olive-green folia

sheffields.com

Yea . I see what you mean . Thanks that helps alot .

 

[Dav4]

I’ve been using Schumacher for years as a source for tridents and palmatums. I’ll actually order enough for several years worth of starting seeds each spring- I store the seeds in original packaging in my fridge crisper drawer- and I’ve never been disappointed with germination rates. My stratification process is hot water(out of tap) soak for 24 hours then 3 months cold stratification in the fridge.

 

[tigerscott79]

I’ve been using Schumacher for years as a source for tridents and palmatums. I’ll actually order enough for several years worth of starting seeds each spring- I store the seeds in original packaging in my fridge crisper drawer- and I’ve never been disappointed with germination rates. My stratification process is hot water(out of tap) soak for 24 hours then 3 months cold stratification in the fridge.

Ik this will sound odd but how hot, worried I'll cook the seeds if too hot. And do I change water when cools off or just hot at start then wait 24 hrs as it cools

 

[Dav4]

Ik this will sound odd but how hot, worried I'll cook the seeds if too hot. And do I change water when cools off or just hot at start then wait 24 hrs as it cools

Hot out of the tap… think shower hot