Trident Maple Air layer fail

[Themilkyway]

Hello,

Today I took off an air layer that didn’t root but has callused tremendously. I cleaned up some branches, left a leader, and applied cut paste. I originally started the airlayer at the beginning of June and gave it 3 months. Should I have just kept it on? Is it too late to rescar and start another layer in September or wait until the spring.

I don’t know what I did wrong. Any feedback would be much appreciated. Thank you

 

[pandacular]

The callous formation and the swelling above the layer look good, indicating that you did cut deep enough. It also appears to have "bridged", meaning the cambium re-grew over your girdle. This could be caused by either leaving small pieces of cambium on the girdle or too narrow of a girdle (my guess based on the images).

As to whether you can restart this layer this late, I'm not really sure. From my research, some people seem to have success overwintering air layers and separating in the spring, but the details on that are fuzzy. Actually, I have a thread about that exact topic:

Restarting a failed airlayer in mid summer for fall separation

This April, I attempted an air layer on an Azara microphylla that has since failed. Looking back at the pictures, I think I see the problem clearly now--way too much green! Uncover this first attempt, I do see some signs that it was starting to work, before it completely (and somewhat cleanly)...

www.bonsainut.com

 

[bwaynef]

The next airlayer I try with a trident will be without rooting hormone. I've got one I'm on my 2nd year and 4th attempt I believe. I'm going to approach graft seedlings in the spring if there aren't any roots by then. There's no harm in putting the layering material back on and trying again. Check it in spring and re-evaluate. I *WANT* to say that it HAS to root, but mine's trying to beat that notion out of me.

I'd definitely widen the gap between the callous and the rest of the tree. I'd also take this as an opportunity to line up where you want roots to form by cutting into the callous.

Good luck.

 

[Themilkyway]

The callous formation and the swelling above the layer look good, indicating that you did cut deep enough. It also appears to have "bridged", meaning the cambium re-grew over your girdle. This could be caused by either leaving small pieces of cambium on the girdle or too narrow of a girdle (my guess based on the images).

As to whether you can restart this layer this late, I'm not really sure. From my research, some people seem to have success overwintering air layers and separating in the spring, but the details on that are fuzzy. Actually, I have a thread about that exact topic:

Restarting a failed airlayer in mid summer for fall separation

This April, I attempted an air layer on an Azara microphylla that has since failed. Looking back at the pictures, I think I see the problem clearly now--way too much green! Uncover this first attempt, I do see some signs that it was starting to work, before it completely (and somewhat cleanly)...

www.bonsainut.com

Hello Pandacular,

thank you for your comments. It helps to get confirmation on what I did right and what I did wrong. Glad to know i cut deep enough. I will make sure I cut the section wider next time.

Also, I didn't use a girdle. If by girdle you mean tightly tying a piece of wire around the air layer. I read about others doing it. do you think it is necessary? Do you think I should add a girdle on now in preparation to try again in Spring? Thank you

 

[Themilkyway]

The next airlayer I try with a trident will be without rooting hormone. I've got one I'm on my 2nd year and 4th attempt I believe. I'm going to approach graft seedlings in the spring if there aren't any roots by then. There's no harm in putting the layering material back on and trying again. Check it in spring and re-evaluate. I *WANT* to say that it HAS to root, but mine's trying to beat that notion out of me.

I'd definitely widen the gap between the callous and the rest of the tree. I'd also take this as an opportunity to line up where you want roots to form by cutting into the callous.

Good luck.

Thanks for your response.

I think I will re-cut this again in the Spring to restart the airlayer. I will definitely widen the gap between the callous and the rest of the tree when I do the airlayer again. I have a question regarding how best to cut the callous in a way to promote the best root spread/formation. Where would I make the cut again in the Spring? Right in the middle around the widest part of the callous? underneath or above the callus? Also how deep do I cut the callous? All the way back to the original trunk? I also read that people just "scrap" away at the callus. What's the best way to restart an airlayer that has callous this much.

 

[pandacular]

Also, I didn't use a girdle. If by girdle you mean tightly tying a piece of wire around the air layer. I read about others doing it. do you think it is necessary? Do you think I should add a girdle on now in preparation to try again in Spring?

The girdle is the name of the cut you made, but it is also sometimes used to mean a piece of wire tied that way. I'm an air layer noob as well, so I can't speak to whether it's useful here, but I have seen folks have successful both with and without it, which leads me to believe it is not necessary. Since tridents are fast growers, I could see how it would be helpful in this case, but I have experience there.

This is a great thread that is worth reading.

The science of air-layering

Because of the number of questions regarding air-layering on the site, I have attempted to pull together an overview of the science behind air-layering which will directly lead to a list of "best practices" and "frequently asked questions". I am going to try to keep the science really simple...

www.bonsainut.com

 

[Vali]

Why not pack it back up now? Why wait till spring? This happened to me too, but I kept it packed and separated the following year when it produced the roots.

 

[bluone23]

If you have leaves above the layer, pack it up and let it for another year.

Had a similar layer, with only one root, and it survived.
Good luck

 

[bwaynef]

Thanks for your response.

I think I will re-cut this again in the Spring to restart the airlayer. I will definitely widen the gap between the callous and the rest of the tree when I do the airlayer again. I have a question regarding how best to cut the callous in a way to promote the best root spread/formation. Where would I make the cut again in the Spring? Right in the middle around the widest part of the callous? underneath or above the callus? Also how deep do I cut the callous? All the way back to the original trunk? I also read that people just "scrap" away at the callus. What's the best way to restart an airlayer that has callous this much.

I've airlayered tons of trees, but have a particular trident that's behaving exactly as yours. I haven't gotten it to root, so be careful doing exactly as I have. That said, when I've had failures on other trees, what I've done is to cut into the callous, straight down to the hardwood. Roots form from callous material, so you don't want to remove all of it. Leave what will give you the best nebari eventually, and cut off the rest of the callous. My usual focus is on having roots along the same plane.

There is nothing to be lost by restarting it now. If nothing else, it gives you an earlier start on roots in the spring. If you manage to get roots before winter, protect the tree from any deep freezes.

 

[MaciekA]

In Vancouver, most of your root growth for this year is still ahead of you. When people say "separate air layers in fall" (at least here in the PNW), they mean separate at the end of fall as opposed to during our late summer "PNW fall sneak peek" weather.

 

[roberthu]

What media did you use and how often have you been watering the cut site? The callus formation is huge but no roots which makes me think it's a watering issue.

 

[leatherback]

I FEEL that layers fail if the substrate stays too wet.
No concrete evidence, but this is a trend I think to see.

 

[pandacular]

I FEEL that layers fail if the substrate stays too wet.
No concrete evidence, but this is a trend I think to see.

I have placed my layers with a mix of regular substrate and chopped sphagnum in a pot, and water when the top dress of sphagnum dries fully. In your experience, does that sound like too much? I know you tend to wrap your layers with plastic rather than using the pot method.

 

[dbonsaiw]

Is it possible you didn't cut the girdle deep enough?

I FEEL that layers fail if the substrate stays too wet.

This is one of the reasons I've been meaning to move away from pure sphagnum moss.

 

[Themilkyway]

What media did you use and how often have you been watering the cut site? The callus formation is huge but no roots which makes me think it's a watering issue.

I used a mix of chopped spagnum and akadama in a pot. I would water it every few days when it started to get dry. What is responsible for the huge callous? Too wet or too dry?

I did use a transparent pot and wrapped it with aluminum so I can check to see if roots have formed. Do you think this may have an effect on root formation? Perhaps too “bright”?

This is the best picture of what I had when I airlayered it back in the beginning of June.

 

[Themilkyway]

In Vancouver, most of your root growth for this year is still ahead of you. When people say "separate air layers in fall" (at least here in the PNW), they mean separate at the end of fall as opposed to during our late summer "PNW fall sneak peek" weather.

Thank you for this.

After a few other responses from others, I think it won’t hurt for me to rescar the callus and pack it up again. It’ll be over a day of it left open to the air though. Do you think there will be any issues?

I also pruned off a lot of branches and trimmed it a bit. The leader is still left on with plenty of leaves though. Wondering if this affects the health of the tree and therefore risk killing it if I try airlayering again?

Thanks

 

[roberthu]

I used a mix of chopped spagnum and akadama in a pot. I would water it every few days when it started to get dry. What is responsible for the huge callous? Too wet or too dry?

I did use a transparent pot and wrapped it with aluminum so I can check to see if roots have formed. Do you think this may have an effect on root formation? Perhaps too “bright”?

This is the best picture of what I had when I airlayered it back in the beginning of June.

I don’t know if the huge callus has anything to do with being wet or dry. It’s a sign that the top was very robust and was very effective at producing sugar and starches. No root formation was probably due to akadama being too wet for too long. I used to use just spagnum moss and tin foil and water every other day or even longer until root formation. Once I see roots, I start to water more often about daily during summer. Hope this helps.

 

[bwaynef]

I don’t know if the huge callus has anything to do with being wet or dry. It’s a sign that the top was very robust and was very effective at producing sugar and starches. No root formation was probably due to akadama being too wet for too long. I used to use just spagnum moss and tin foil and water every other day or even longer until root formation. Once I see roots, I start to water more often about daily during summer. Hope this helps.

The top of mine is actually pretty pathetic. It will flush and grow and then stop. Its definitely NOT what I'd consider robust.

Here's the thread I started on mine a bit ago. I've since addressed the layer once again. As mentioned, I'm lining up some seedlings to approach graft (i think) roots on it this spring if what's going now doesn't root.

@leatherback might be onto something with the staying-too-wet part.

 

[eugenev2]

Not remotely a professional in taking airlayerings, but out of 10 done so far, all 10 were successful and all was done with spagnum moss. Although all were done on easy to root species such as trident maple, japanese maple and chinese elm...although i'm not sure if the elm counted as it started to push roots out on a branch i accidentally damaged. Personally i think people use spagnum moss incorrectly, this watering every other day should not happen. With all of my layerings, it took 3 to 4 weeks before i had to top up the water and it was mostly because roots have formed by then.

 

[roberthu]

Not remotely a professional in taking airlayerings, but out of 10 done so far, all 10 were successful and all was done with spagnum moss. Although all were done on easy to root species such as trident maple, japanese maple and chinese elm...although i'm not sure if the elm counted as it started to push roots out on a branch i accidentally damaged. Personally i think people use spagnum moss incorrectly, this watering every other day should not happen. With all of my layerings, it took 3 to 4 weeks before i had to top up the water and it was mostly because roots have formed by then.

I agree. Watering frequency also depends how big of an open it is at the top of the air layer wrapping.