Zuisho JWP Newbie

[Franky]

Dear bonsai enthusiasts,

I'm enjoying reading the forum and have already learned a lot here. Now, I have registered myself to start the following project.
Yesterday, I received the following three JWP Zuisho saplings, which I bought online. The trees are made by grafting, I guess on a JBP?

Please look at the photos, where I numbered the babies from 1 to 3.


Measurements (excluding pot):

• Zuisho 1: 21 cm tall, 16 cm wide
  
  
  
• Zuisho 2: 16 cm tall, 15 cm wide
  
  
  
• Zuisho 3: 23 cm tall, 10 cm wide
  

The nursery recommends leaving the trees in their training pots for at least two years before repotting them in a ceramic bonsai pot.

For me, the most important thing is to get the plants through the winter. I live in the south of Germany, where the temperatures are currently around freezing point. The trees are outside, standing roofed on a house wall where the temperature is about two degrees warmer than in the garden.

As a newbie (I've only some practice with garden bonsais), I would appreciate any comments and recommendations, especially on the following points.

1. Overwintering: Temperatures may go down to -10 °C (14 °F). Should I protect the 2-liter plastic pots, e.g., Styrofoam, bubble wrap, or anything else? Do I need to worry about the fine needles?
2. How much should I water the plants in winter?
3. Any comments on the quality of the grafts and current branching is appreciated.
4. How old are such grafts typically? 2+2 years?
5. What should I do with the shoots on the rootstock? (Zuisho 1 has two shoots and Zuisho 3 has one, see photos). Are they useful? Or should they be removed sometime in the future?

As I said, getting them through the winter has highest priority, and letting them flourish in spring/summer then.

Thanks for your feedback in advance, and best regards from Bavaria!

Frank

 

[Adair M]

Set them on the ground, pile up some much around the outside of the pots. They’ll be fine. Yes, water them if they get dry.

This spring, I would transfer them to a different growing container to change the angle of growth. You don’t want trunks growing straight up out of the ground, unless you’re planning on making a Formal Upright. Reposition them to come out of the ground at an angle.

You will want to wait a bit before removing the shoots on the rootstock. Those grafts are still young. Wait maybe a year.

 

[Franky]

Thank you for the quick reply.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Agree with Adair, these are really young, and need to grow for a few years. They should be plenty hardy in your area mulched in as suggested. I have been growing one for 15 years, and have yet to really start training it. The thread is here:

Zuisho White Pine

David, New Thread...Glad your Zuisho is looking good. Mine is growing pretty well this year, candles were about 4"-5" long and are fully open now. A small, second flush is pushing. Somehow, it seems that last year I had less foliage growth, but the trunk about doubled in thickness. This...

www.bonsainut.com

It will give you an idea of what to expect year after year of growth. At some point, they do start to bulk up. I’m still waiting.

 

[JudyB]

Wondering why zuisho were grafted to JBP, I thought the reasoning for the cultivar is the shorter time period needed to get the rough bark...@Adair M ?

 

[Adair M]

Wondering why zuisho were grafted to JBP, I thought the reasoning for the cultivar is the shorter time period needed to get the rough bark...@Adair M ?

Grafting is the easiest way to get new trees. But, I’m not so sure that’s JBP stock. It looks more like some other kind of pine. That stoak is a smooth grey. More like EWP. The guy is in Europe, so I doubt it’s EWP, but they may have some other species they use as grafting stock.

The primary feature of Zuisho is the small needles, and tight clusters of buds. Yes, the trunk will bulk up once the tree gets 10 to 15 years of age. But like all JWP, it takes a while to get the mature flaky bark, around 20 to 25 before it starts getting flaky.

I have 3 Zuisho, 3 Kokonoe, and 1 Nano JWP. All are considered “dwarf” varieties. Zuisho has the shortest needles, and they are the darkest green. Nano has short needles, too, but it stays more yellow. Kokonoe has the longest needles of these three, although they are still shorter than most JWP, and are medium green. I have another dwarf JWP, a Mijyami (or something like that) that grows EXTREMELY slowly, and has very short needles.

Kokonoe and Zuisho are the only two that are known to grow from cuttings. Even then, it’s rare for them to survive. About 5% of cuttings will live. Both, however, will grow as layers. Either ground or air layering works.

Two of my Zuisho are air layers. The other, I have no idea.

Of my Kokonoe, 1 is still grafted on JBP, 1 appears to be on it’s own roots and I have no idea how it was propogated, and one was originally a graft, but it ground layered roots off the JWP portions, and the old JBP roots were removed.

Once the OP’s trees grow a bit bigger, he could (should!) layer them so that they’re on their own roots. Either ground or air, they both work. Ground is safer. If I were him, that’s what I would do. They would be far more valuable growing on their own roots than they will ever be as grafts. 10 to 100 times as valuable!

 

[Franky]

Grafting is the easiest way to get new trees. But, I’m not so sure that’s JBP stock. It looks more like some other kind of pine. That stoak is a smooth grey. More like EWP. The guy is in Europe, so I doubt it’s EWP, but they may have some other species they use as grafting stock.

I have checked with the nursery. The stock is Pinus thunbergii, but which variety I don't know.

 

[Franky]

Once the OP’s trees grow a bit bigger, he could (should!) layer them so that they’re on their own roots. Either ground or air, they both work. Ground is safer.

Could you kindly advise how much the trees (how many years or which stock thickness) should grow before ground layering? Which other threads or tutorials can you recommend for ground layering, especially for this type of pines? Which technique is recommended (cutting the girdle, tourniquet, application of root hormones, etc.)? New roots might appear only after two or more years?

 

[Adair M]

Could you kindly advise how much the trees (how many years or which stock thickness) should grow before ground layering? Which other threads or tutorials can you recommend for ground layering, especially for this type of pines? Which technique is recommended (cutting the girdle, tourniquet, application of root hormones, etc.)? New roots might appear only after two or more years?

Franky, I’ve never done it. But Julian Adam’s has done it hundreds of times! He’s air layered many, many Zuisho. I have two from him. He is THE source for Zuisho in the United States.

He’s very nice and can give you much better advice than I. He can be reached via his web site: www.adamsbonsai.com.

 

[Franky]

Many thanks for the info.

 

[JeffS73]

Franky, if you do contact Julian, please post back with his recommendations! I've also got 3 zuisho that I'd like to layer. I think there's info in bonsai today but it sounds like his advice would be invaluable.

 

[Adair M]

Wondering why zuisho were grafted to JBP, I thought the reasoning for the cultivar is the shorter time period needed to get the rough bark...@Adair M ?

Judy, I don’t think grafting Zuisho onto JBP produces rough bark on the Zuisho portion any faster than any other pine stock. Sure, JBP produces rough bark on the the JBP portion quicker than most any other pine. I think also the general vigor of JBP is thought to make the Zuisho portion grow faster. I have no evidence that it does or does not. Grafting Zuisho onto other JWP stock would produce a more attractive graft union since stock and scion would have more similar growth rates and bark quality. JBP thickens faster than JWP, and there’s almost always a distinct caliper difference between the two above and below the graft union.

And, unfortunately, there’s really no way to tell if a young tree‘s graft is going to turn out well, or always be an ugly scar. The way they’re done in Japan is they’re grafted by the thousands, planted in the field, and grown for a decade. Sure, they get cut back and pruned for general shape during this time, but, in the end, they dont get evaluated for 10 to 15 years. Then, they’re dug up and culled. They keep the good ones, and toss the ugly ones. At least, that’s the way the commercial bonsai growers do it. The backyard hobbiest probably does it the same way we do, baby each tree. But the ones we see here in the US are the ones grown by the big commercial growers.

 

[discusmike]

Julian Adams is getting older and is not producing zuisho cuttings and layers like he use too, I can remember being very new to the hobby and traveling to his house many years ago, he Had hundreds of cuttings and large air layers, those days are gone. The only person I know of that had very nice grafts was Brent and I believe he has stopped producing jwp

 

[Ohmy222]

I have two layers I got from Julian and they are very small. Pencil thick or so. Based on that, I gather you can layer them while very small. After I received them I actually asked if they were cuttings and he said no, they were layers.

 

[Adair M]

Julian Adams is getting older and is not producing zuisho cuttings and layers like he use too, I can remember being very new to the hobby and traveling to his house many years ago, he Had hundreds of cuttings and large air layers, those days are gone. The only person I know of that had very nice grafts was Brent and I believe he has stopped producing jwp

Julian has always said that only 5% of his cuttings would live. That’s 5 of 100!

I think his success rate for layers is much higher.

 

[discusmike]

He use to have very large layers,some he would use only potting soil in The plastic bag for layers.

 

[zero]

I met Julian at the Winter Silhouette show and he was awesome- just a very cool guy with a wealth of info and great material and selections. Was a shame I couldn’t buy anything but it does encourage me to get out to his place. My friend bought his book and we were all droolling over his mature zuisho and five needle pre-bonsai. he showed us grafts he had done on the large specimen he brought and they looked flawless

 

[penumbra]

This old thread intrigues me because of all the pines in the world I have seen, JWP are by far my favorite. I have 10 different cultivars now and am very much interested in propagating a few dozen at most, not 100s. I was unaware that any of them could be layered and thought my only option was very low grafts like Brent at Gardenworks suggests. Even then, I am interested in finding the best rootstock. I would appreciate any pointers or tips regarding their propagation using any and all methods.
Thank you in advance.

 

[HankDio]

This old thread intrigues me because of all the pines in the world I have seen, JWP are by far my favorite. I have 10 different cultivars now and am very much interested in propagating a few dozen at most, not 100s. I was unaware that any of them could be layered and thought my only option was very low grafts like Brent at Gardenworks suggests. Even then, I am interested in finding the best rootstock. I would appreciate any pointers or tips regarding their propagation using any and all methods.
Thank you in advance.

Zuisho specifically can propagate from cuttings as well as air-layering as mentioned above. The cutting rate, as mentioned, is low, however. Supposedly the Japanese have a higher success rate but I have a hard time finding meaningful evidence of this. Air layering is probably the best way to propagate Zuisho in the US.

Japanese Five-needle pine seeds in general also germinate well via cold stratification in a crisper drawer using your preferred stratification medium. I use peat.

 

[penumbra]

Zuisho is one I don't have but I have many dwarfs. A have seeds to plant and have done well with other pines but I am looking for larger seedlings for grafting and alternate propagation methods for the JWP cultivars I do have.