Young Pinus Radiata development

[Blox]

Hey guys. So this is my first post here. I'm really new to this so bear with me XD Okay so I grew this pinus Radiata from seed 2 years ago and now I'm seriously wondering what to do with it. I've hardly done anything on it as I've been scared to mess it up too much (it's basically impossible for me to find pine material here in South Africa, and I don't want to buy expensive black pines from the local nursery just yet) anyway, it seems that there is a lot of bar branching and I should probably make a choice now.

DSC_0891

• Blox
• May 14, 2016

DSC_0890

• Blox
• May 14, 2016

DSC_0889

• Blox
• May 14, 2016

DSC_0888

• Blox
• May 14, 2016

 

[sorce]

Welcome to Crazy!

Sorce

 

[Blox]

Thanks Sorce

 

[sorce]

I think you can find a lot of good info on developing Black pines to use for the styling of this initial development.

What to keep and not...

@Eric Schrader has a good thread here..

And @Brian Van Fleet has an article on how blog....or a book.?

I don't pine much, except for Bass!

Sorce

 

[Blox]

I'll check those out, was thinking of maybe chopping to the first branches and using one as the leader and the other as the first branch.

 

[Potawatomi13]

don't want to buy expensive black pines from the local nursery just yet

Can obtain seeds and grow fairly quickly and cheaply.

 

[Blox]

Can obtain seeds and grow fairly quickly and cheaply.

That's true, and I probably will do that, but do you have any advice with regards to this tree?

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

My knowledge of Pinus radiata is only "internet knowledge", but I suspect you are not going to get many replies with first hand knowledge from the USA. They are only used occasionally in the USA. In Australia and New Zealand I believe they are used a little more often for bonsai. Mainly because they are fairly similar to the Japanese Black Pine, only P. radiata is less tolerant of cold temperatures and have somewhat more coarse features than JBP.
That it does not tolerate cold as well as JBP should be no problem in South Africa. My understanding is that in general when vigorous and growing well they can be treated similar to a JBP in that they will respond to candle cutting techniques. When vigorous and growing well they can have multiple flushes of growth. So in general training for P. radiata should be pretty similar to techniques for JBP. Read up all you can on JBP, keeping in mind your P. radiata won't necessarily respond in the same time table or same way. Keep notes of how your trees respond, what works well and what doesn't and you will do fine.

Candle pruning and needle plucking are not techniques for very young trees, Generally you don't start with these 2 techniques until the diameter of the trunk of your seedling is approaching the size you want for your finished bonsai. However this is not 100% true, the low branches that you plan on keeping as part of the "finished design" you do candle prune, but the escape branches you do not. Brent Walston, of Evergreen Garden Works, has several excellent articles on his website about growing JBP from seed for bonsai, and another couple articles about growing trunks, for both deciduous and conifers. Go to his website and read the "Articles" section.
http://www.evergreengardenworks.com/articles.htm

There are fewer articles on raising pre-bonsai than there are on techniques for trees in advanced development, so Brent's articles are an excellent resource as that is his business, developing pre-bonsai.

Hope this helps.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

One more thought, you have a nice collection of low branches, you want to keep as many of these as you can. Don't pull needles off the low branches, as your back budding will come from the buds in the base of the needle pairs. Wire these out, so they both have movement, and to keep them exposed to light to preserve the interior needles for back budding.

Now is the time to decide what size bonsai you want this tree to become. The diameter of the trunk relative to the height of a tree is critical in creating the illusion of an old tree in miniature. A meter tall tree should have a trunk diameter somewhere between 15 and 30 cm. A finished bonsai that is only 20 cm tall will need a trunk diameter at least 4 cm in diameter, with larger diameters being better up to a full 10 cm. You will need to let the leader, or apex of the tree run to great height, as much as 2 meters to get the thickness of trunk you need to create the illusion. At the same time, you need to preserve these low branches and keep them from getting too thick during the time you are thickening the trunk. It is a complicated process, requiring planning. The articles I referenced cover this pretty well. Decide what you want, make a plan, and try to get the tree to cooperate.

Good luck, it can be done, and done well. A challenge for you.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Last thought, someone is likely to tell you that where you have multiple branches coming off the trunk at the same point, like spokes on a wheel, you need to cut them off, reducing the number to one single branch. Ignore them, or at least at this stage put off this task, until the tree is older and closer to the finished trunk diameter you need for your design. If you have multiple branches at the same level, on this young tree, reduce the number to 3, select one long vigorous one, and two short ones. The shorter ones will become your choices for the final tree, the long one will help build taper in the trunk. You want to develop a bushy tree, so that when it is time to finally style the tree, you will have lots of choices.

Right now you are growing to create a "Pre-Bonsai" specimen, you are not styling a bonsai at this point.

Also resist the urge to "Choose a Front", this is another activity that should be put off until later in the development. You want to make a bushy tree with a fat trunk first. Lots of bushy branches low, and a number of awkward looking long escape branches sticking out here and there.

Last, keep moving this tree into larger nursery pots. Do not put it in a bonsai pot until after it has achieved the trunk diameter needed to be a believable bonsai. Once you move it to a small pot, the diameter of the trunk will stop increasing.

Most bonsai, even the shohin bonsai that are under 20 cm tall, spend most of their development as much larger trees, and are only brought down to these small sizes at the very end of the their training. Often the first 10 years are in large nursery pots. Sometime much longer.

 

[Blox]

Thank you so much for the informative reply! The only problems I have are with developing the base of the trunk as the first two branches are at the same level, also I have no idea what the root structure is like because I haven't repotted it. So when developing the base the idea is to have a wide nebari, but how will this bar branch affect it? Should I cut one off to avoid future reverse taper?

Last thought, someone is likely to tell you that where you have multiple branches coming off the trunk at the same point, like spokes on a wheel, you need to cut them off, reducing the number to one single branch. Ignore them, or at least at this stage put off this task, until the tree is older and closer to the finished trunk diameter you need for your design. If you have multiple branches at the same level, on this young tree, reduce the number to 3, select one long vigorous one, and two short ones. The shorter ones will become your choices for the final tree, the long one will help build taper in the trunk. You want to develop a bushy tree, so that when it is time to finally style the tree, you will have lots of choices.

Right now you are growing to create a "Pre-Bonsai" specimen, you are not styling a bonsai at this point.

Also resist the urge to "Choose a Front", this is another activity that should be put off until later in the development. You want to make a bushy tree with a fat trunk first. Lots of bushy branches low, and a number of awkward looking long escape branches sticking out here and there.

Last, keep moving this tree into larger nursery pots. Do not put it in a bonsai pot until after it has achieved the trunk diameter needed to be a believable bonsai. Once you move it to a small pot, the diameter of the trunk will stop increasing.

Most bonsai, even the shohin bonsai that are under 20 cm tall, spend most of their development as much larger trees, and are only brought down to these small sizes at the very end of the their training. Often the first 10 years are in large nursery pots. Sometime much longer.

 

[rollwithak]

Thank you so much for the informative reply! The only problems I have are with developing the base of the trunk as the first two branches are at the same level, also I have no idea what the root structure is like because I haven't repotted it. So when developing the base the idea is to have a wide nebari, but how will this bar branch affect it? Should I cut one off to avoid future reverse taper?

Blox, would love to see an update!