Young Itoigawa junipers not doing great

[alexdobrin]

Hello! This is my first post. I am new to bonsai and after reading a lot on forums about junipers and watching many YouTube videos on the subject I got myself 3 young Itoigawa junipers. From the get-go I made a mistake of using some substrate that I had home instead of going for a proper one and my junipers aren't doing so great. In the attached pictures 2 out of 3 seem to be slowly browning, but the one that was the strongest when I bought them is still doing very well and growing. I used Osmocote as fertiliser. They get sun from 2:30 PM to 7:30 PM and I added a 40% shade cloth because my other trees were getting their leaves sun burnt. Do you have any advice for me to help the 2 young junipers?

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Do the pots have holes?
The substrate is not great but also not super terrible, I've grown itoigawa in potting soil for a couple years.

Junipers don't require shade cloth per say. Mine have browning tips in the shade. Just 5 hours of 40% sunlight might be what'd causing these problems.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Full sun, better soil, and patience.

 

[ShimpakuBonsai]

These are very young rooted cuttings and they need at least 2 years to get really growing.

 

[Shibui]

Wet soil and light would be my 2 guesses.
Given that the bigger one is doing OK I think it's more likely to be wet soil.
It is likely the larger plant is using water a bit faster than the smaller ones, maybe just enough to stop the soil being waterlogged. Many plants suffer when potted into too large pots.
The deep pots may also be holding more water than you realise.
Assuming the pots have good drain holes to let excess water out.
The pots are sitting flat on a flat surface which can sometimes impede water drainage. Good bonsai pots have little legs and good plant pots have holes around the base to let water out even if the pots are on a flat surface. I would start by putting some little chocks under the pots to let air circulate and water drain better. Small tiles, metal washers, anything that will lift and support the pots will do.
Then check each pot before watering. Dig down a little to check soil moisture or use a wood skewer as a soil moisture meter. Only water when the soil is getting close to dry. Each pot may need watering different days.

Light:
Is the sun from 2:30 direct sun or sun through the shade cloth? 40% is pretty light shade but junipers usually do better with direct sun for most of the day depending on local conditions and provided we can manage watering.

It often helps if we know what part of the world you live in. Much of what we do relates to specific climate conditions and different things work in different parts of the world so knowing 'where' can help us advise 'what'

 

[alexdobrin]

Thank you all for the quick responses. I appreciate all the input.

@Wires_Guy_wires the pots have draining holes and I also put some old akadama I had around on the bottom just as a precaution in case I water and the water level raises too much. The pot has a little glass triangle where I can see water level on the bottom of the pot. I attached screenshot. I will try to put one of the weaker ones in the full sun to check if that is the problem.

@Shibui The sun from 2:30 is through shade cloth. I will try to lift one pot of the weaker ones and let the water drain on a humidity tray instead of the bottom of the pot, plus giving it full sun. I live in Romania, Eastern Europe, which has temperate humid continental climate, hot summers, mild winters (at least for the past 15 years). The peak of the summer is around 37 Celsius ~ 99 Fahrenheit.

 

[Shibui]

I live in Romania, Eastern Europe, which has temperate humid continental climate, hot summers, mild winters (at least for the past 15 years). The peak of the summer is around 37 Celsius ~ 99 Fahrenheit.

37 is quite mild. My junipers sit in full sun all day in daytime peak temperatures over 40C, sometimes for a week at a time through summer. When it gets over 40 they do seem to appreciate a little shade though and watering MUST be maintained to balance the heat.
Not sure if the self watering pots will be a good option for juniper or not. I've only used open base pots of one sort or another. Roots definitely do much better when allowed to get close to dry rather than constantly damp. If you choose to keep these pots I'd be interested to see further posts to watch how the junipers do in these pots.

Thanks for giving a location. You may have noticed that most of us have a location in our personal profiles (left of each post). If you plan to stick around and post more I'd advise editing yours to include the location. That way you don't need to remember to type it each time you post.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Thank you all for the quick responses. I appreciate all the input.

@Wires_Guy_wires the pots have draining holes and I also put some old akadama I had around on the bottom just as a precaution in case I water and the water level raises too much. The pot has a little glass triangle where I can see water level on the bottom of the pot. I attached screenshot. I will try to put one of the weaker ones in the full sun to check if that is the problem.

@Shibui The sun from 2:30 is through shade cloth. I will try to lift one pot of the weaker ones and let the water drain on a humidity tray instead of the bottom of the pot, plus giving it full sun. I live in Romania, Eastern Europe, which has temperate humid continental climate, hot summers, mild winters (at least for the past 15 years). The peak of the summer is around 37 Celsius ~ 99 Fahrenheit.

I would take the inner pot out and leave it as is. The overflow of the outer pot leaves a couple centimeters of water, which will be problematic as there's constant moisture on the bottom and very little air movement.
Good pot for indoor plants and plants in difficult locations, but not great for cultivating arid-loving species like junipers (that also like water a lot, but also a bunch of air and some dryness every now and again).

For now, more sunlight and less water are your best options. Next spring, repot them into something better. But keep in mind that most junipers need some time to get going. If you see very little growth in the first year after repotting, that's totally normal.

 

[snowman04]

Wow, I missed this one! 2021... What was I thinking!!! Hope they lived...

 

[August44]

Full sun, better soil, and patience.

Even on 90-110 degree Days Brian?

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Wow, I missed this one! 2021... What was I thinking!!! Hope they lived...

This thread originated in 2024? Dude?!

 

[snowman04]

I got this one crossed up with another I had open...

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Even on 90-110 degree Days Brian?

How do you interpret “full sun”?

 

[Grunge_Bonsai]

How these doing? Hope they are rooting out. I want to add these will grow wayyyyyyy faster in bigger pots or grow bags.

That being said, not to be done in the heat of summer. Are these young junipers from Bonsaify?

 

[alexdobrin]

Hey @Grunge_Bonsai! The big healthy one is still doing ok, the two smaller ones just kept degrading so I just potted them in the ground as they were, without disturbing the roots. I am from Europe, Romania so buying from Bonsaify is out of question. I bought my itoigawas from a nursery in Germany called Bonsaischule Enger. All the trees I received from them were healthy and properly packaged.

 

[leatherback]

I want to add these will grow wayyyyyyy faster in bigger pots or grow bags.

Can you show examples?

 

[Grunge_Bonsai]

Can you show examples?

I am not sure if there are idiosyncrasies with Itoigawa, but I have this Procumbens Nana and ERC (also a juniper) I have been working this year as examples.

In a pot about 1/3 the size, the Nana was doing almost nothing in the growing season on my friend’s back deck, for almost a year (he also pinched the main leader).

See below for changes since I repotted in February until now.

 

[leatherback]

In a pot about 1/3 the size, the Nana was doing almost nothing in the growing season on my friend’s back deck, for almost a year (he also pinched the main leader).

I doubt it is the pot-size. You are talking a fully different care regime; Your example does not show the pure pot-size effect. In fact, the growth you get there I get on my trees in bonsai pots too if I fertilize and water well and do not prune. 4-6 inch extention is normal in my garden.

I put attention to this, as overpotting is not always a good idea. The plants shown by OP are already struggling, probably due too wet conditions. Adding to the pot-size can negatively affect the situation

 

[Grunge_Bonsai]

I doubt it is the pot-size. You are talking a fully different care regime; Your example does not show the pure pot-size effect. In fact, the growth you get there I get on my trees in bonsai pots too if I fertilize and water well and do not prune. 4-6 inch extention is normal in my garden.

I put attention to this, as overpotting is not always a good idea. The plants shown by OP are already struggling, probably due too wet conditions. Adding to the pot-size can negatively affect the situation

Idk, I disagree with you and think you’re arguing against an argument I never made.

The juniper nana in the picture above has been in a smaller pot for 2 years prior to me repotting it in February. I also based this decision on a juniper potting experiment I saw on YouTube where a grower achieved 2-3 times growth in a larger pot (about the size of my bags) compared to same soil, same watering regime plants in pots the size of OPs.

It’s not really debated horticultural science that plants will gain more size in larger pots if their roots are allowed to grow to fill the larger pots over time.

That’s the point I was making. Hope this clears it up.

 

[Grunge_Bonsai]

Hey @Grunge_Bonsai! The big healthy one is still doing ok, the two smaller ones just kept degrading so I just potted them in the ground as they were, without disturbing the roots. I am from Europe, Romania so buying from Bonsaify is out of question. I bought my itoigawas from a nursery in Germany called Bonsaischule Enger. All the trees I received from them were healthy and properly packaged.

Soil looks fine.

I would make sure they are getting full sun and getting about 70% dry between waterings for now. Sunlight is their friend.