Young bonsai artist from Tennessee..astounding bonsai

[Vance Wood]

Man, this thead is taking more twists and turns that a 500 year old juniper styled by Kimura...lol. Thats my bonsai joke for today. Seems like this thread has some poitical discussions creeping in...Maybe we should talk about something less heated and opinionated... Who's up for a discussion about religion...lol

Rob

But still it comes back to what's happening to the kind of talent we need here in America that is either run off or moving away because that talent cannot find a home here that is willing and able to support their efforts.

 

[Dav4]

Maybe we should talk about something less heated and opinionated... Who's up for a discussion about religion...lol

Rob

...better then soil or fertilizer

 

[Martin Sweeney]

Vance,

Is it possible that Bjorn met a woman in Japan who lives in Japan and is not willing to move half a world away to live in a foreign country? If I went to another country and met someone, I would not expect that person to move back to the US with me to continue a relationship. I would of course be thrilled if they did and would want them to, but wouldn't expect it. If someone came here and I met them, I would not expect to have to leave the US to continue a relationship.

I do not understand why you feel he was run off or wasn't supported here. Ryan Neil certainly wasn't run off and is supported. I haven't heard of this being an issue. In fact, it seems like we have a net influx of bonsai experts moving here (Peter Adams and Colin Lewis coming and Bjorn leaving). Maybe I am just out of the loop or not understanding your point.

Regards,
Martin

 

[Don Blackmond]

I believe bonsai in the USA is better and more alive (pardon the pun) than any time that I can remember. I believe we have more Japanese-trained artisans than any time in the past, and more folks keep heading to Japan for formal training then returning. I also believe that the internet and social media have been tremendous assets to the bonsai community.

What's more, Bjorn will continue to bless us with his skills and teaching despite the apparent move to Japan. This is so because we have the internet and social media connecting him there to us here. So, with the evils of electronics gadgetry comes advantages as well.

One last comment here. Bonsai professionals will have more incentive to stick around if they are supported and encouraged to practice what they do. This means sponsorships and paid services sufficient to continue doing what they do here, full time. If there is demand for them then they will be here in the USA. If the demand is low, don't expect people like Bjorn to spend the time and money to be professionally trained then stay in a environment where their skills are not appreciated or wasted.

 

[William N. Valavanis]

I'm pretty certain that Bjorn married a beautiful, small (well most anyone compared to Bjorn would be considered short) woman from Taiwan who has a job on Kyoto. In fact both Bjorn and his wife have jobs and he is also studying some kind of international business, not bonsai. I think he has graduated from Mr Fujikawa, but still returns to help, like at the Taikan ten show in In November and Kokufu ten a few weeks ago.

I don't think Bjorn plans on returning to live on the US in the forseable future. He will be at the Midwest Bonsai Show in August.

Bill

 

[Vance Wood]

Vance,

Is it possible that Bjorn met a woman in Japan who lives in Japan and is not willing to move half a world away to live in a foreign country? If I went to another country and met someone, I would not expect that person to move back to the US with me to continue a relationship. I would of course be thrilled if they did and would want them to, but wouldn't expect it. If someone came here and I met them, I would not expect to have to leave the US to continue a relationship.

I do not understand why you feel he was run off or wasn't supported here. Ryan Neil certainly wasn't run off and is supported. I haven't heard of this being an issue. In fact, it seems like we have a net influx of bonsai experts moving here (Peter Adams and Colin Lewis coming and Bjorn leaving). Maybe I am just out of the loop or not understanding your point.

Regards,
Martin

I'm sorry if I implied that that was so, but still we are losing him.

 

[Martin Sweeney]

Vance,

Yes, that does sum it up succinctly, point taken.

We are lucky enough to have him booked to come to Charlotte NC in September. I am not sure of the specifics yet, but the Bonsai Learning Center is hosting him for a class on 8/31/13 and I think the Bonsai Society of the Carolinas is sharing him as well. They have not published their schedule yet. I am planning and hoping to take advantage of his visit! I am hoping he will have a yearly US tour.

Regards,
Martin

 

[A Random User]

Supportive is a relative term in this discussion. Here is where opinion can play a part. You feel that if a person is not knowledgeable about bonsai simply because they are new..and they have an idea...It is ok to encourage that idea. Regardless if in time, the trees health might decline and when the person does the work, a year later, when they learn more, they probably won't be happy. Which in turns leads to them getting rid of the trees. If I am not mistaken, you want to encourage theie expression, even though, in the end, it is a good and highly probable that the tree wil not become a nice bonsai.

The alternative idea of support is...If the situation was someone coming on who doesn't know what to do or has an idea that is almost certainly going to lead to them being unhappy with the tree down the road or compromise the trees health...I think that, for the most part, it is good to share with them why there might be a better alternative. I don't think there is anything wrong with letting someone know that the outcome may not be favorable and the reasons why. No one is telling someone what to do. Just saying what might be best for the tree in regards to bonsai.

Although the beginning journey in bonsai is fun. Everything is so new and if you are open, you begin to realize how vast this art is. However, I will say this. Back about 14-15 years ago. I wish I had access to these sites and this information. Bonsai was such an isolated practice that if you needed a question answerd, you had to dig through book stores or maybe a library. Also, if you did find a book or someone that knew something, you would hope that the book or person could answer your specific question.

Rob

Now for the most part, I totally agree with what you have said here Rob.
But...
There are a few things we must take into account, I personally think that
one learns best through practice, practice and more practice... whether
you are just starting off or have been doing bonsai for years.

I also think it is very important to get your hands on as much material as
possible, even if it is not necessarily good material, and keep busy doing
Bonsai. Just like any other art or even trade, continually doing it keeps
you sharp. There is a reason why, folks like Ryan Neil can go through and
wire a tree and style it, with amazing results, in a very short amount of time.
Alot to do with him going through the motions day in, and day out.

I personally do this all the time... I am often buying a cheap juniper or two
when I am at one of the Big Box stores, and wiring and styling it... Now to
folks like Vance... they would question, why I would waste my time on what
he would refer to as a "crappy" bonsai... But, what he does not get, and
probally will never get, is that's not what is important... and not the whole
point of the exercise. Besides... even "Great" bonsai, often were once "Crappy"
little trees, that some one made "Great".

Don't believe me ??? Plop a great piece of material down in front of someone
who's not very good and see what happens...


Lastly... I would have to disagree, with your suggestion that "No one is telling
someone what to do. Just saying what might be best for the tree in regards to
bonsai."...

Two things happen here time and time again, one being that someone will post
a tree and state where they want to take it, and how they want to style it....
and rather than trying to seriously help them go about achieving what "they"
want , often they are bullied into something else...

by either repeated suggestions of what they should do...
or, worse yet they are attacked by some "pissy" Old-Timer, for daring to question
what they say...

There is not a problem with making a suggestion that perhaps they should take
it in a different direction... But. when the poster says that is not what they want
to do, then that should be respected.

 

[daytona1911]

What an exciting thread. Just finally sat down and really read it through.
I like the varying thoughts on why the US is a bit behind the eight ball on having quality bonsai.

I figured Id throw in my two cents as this does directly impact me more than anything thing else on these boards I've ever read, or written in, for that matter.
Bonsai needs to become more ingrained in Americans minds as living art sculpture, with better material available to start, then be more refined and presented as such. But there are reasons we don't see this.
To preface this, I have been teaching beginner bonsai classes since March of 2003. I started teaching more advanced classes when demand dictated it. At which time I had guest artists visit the nursery. I worked on filling spaces months before for artists such as Steve Pilacik, Suthin Sukosolvisit , Mike Rogers among many others over the past ten years. This would be one time classes. There were put on a monthly to bi-weekly basis to bring in not only current, but new initiates into the hobby. To not only generate new customers, but also try to create awareness what it takes to create good quality material for them to work in class. Also, to show what it takes to create good finished Bonsai. This has been an uphill battle for sure.
For one thing, for most customers, it is of passing interest. They like the looks of the trees, but just cannot fathom the prices that 20 years of someones life training a 12 inch tall tree can command. Plus they don't want to take the time to create something comparable. Its too much work for a culture that wants instant gratification. I spend most of my teaching by explaining that its not in the finished product, it's, "the doing". Although being able to show a tree properly is also big in our classes. It is slowly building an audience in my area, but it takes time to ingrain it to someones psyche that they are really going to have to place a high priority on these trees to be successful.

I think that a lot of our culture is removed from the appreciation of and inherent beauty of nature in general. And this is not to say that everyone reading this board and others do not have an appreciation of said beauty. If you are on a board talking and learning about trees, you, unfortunately are still a tiny minority of our Americans who in fact loves and reveres trees. The trick is to get the masses to feel at least a percentage of what most of us feel when we see true beauty in a finished container.
I think there are places in America where the public is informed of these Representatives of beauty, but it has been woefully underfunded, under promoted, and misunderstood in most parts of our country. Even where it is promoted heavily most of the masses have no idea it exists. Its still exotic, and not even on the radar.
William Valavanis has been promoting true bonsai in America for years, and has a great following and a wonderful display professionally done to show for it. Suthin, Boon, Roy, Rodney, and many, many others have done an excellent job of teaching and promoting the Art form for years and have also shown many uninitiated what true beauty can be achieved, but it still doesn't stick for most. I think that just now I am hearing true "masters" or professionals are now taking apprentices (not students, but those living and breathing bonsai on site full time) to actually have 2 and 4 year programs to learn what it takes to create quality pieces. This is HUGE for the future quality of bonsai in America. On the front end, maybe the amount of Masters coming up will surpass the amount of Masters passing to the great beyond. Until recently, I was worried this was the case. The fact that there are 10+ artists coming to the American fold, Japanese trained and accredited or soon to be is a positive for sure. These professional practitioners are setting up bonsai nurseries, selling finished or nearly finished trees only. This is HUGE. This is telling me the appreciators of Bonsai are actually willing to pay the prices that finish bonsai command. Bring the quality in, create the awareness, be willing to pay for said quality and artistic beauty.
The masses need to not scoff at a quality ten year old tree that's 125.00 , then go to a high end Steakhouse with their missus and the kids and eat a 150.00 meal.
If enough folks are willing to pay for better stock, pay for professional instruction from someone who spent years of their life learning from someone who is also accredited from someone else , pay for material, pay for new pots and tools. And the new, young, exciting bonsai professionals are continuing to create more customers and future bonsai artists through teaching or other means, who are willing to repeat the process, ( do you see a pattern here?)
Have more bonsai displays open to the public, more demos, more awareness, make it apart of our culture, not just a fringe art as it is now. We have 50-60 fairly impressive events and displays a year throughout the USA, maybe more. We need 2000 a year to make this more ingrained in the public's collective minds.
If priorities change, Bonsai will succeed.
If it doesn't, I'm going to cook steaks.

 

[Vance Wood]

I personally do this all the time... I am often buying a cheap juniper or two
when I am at one of the Big Box stores, and wiring and styling it... Now to
folks like Vance... they would question, why I would waste my time on what
he would refer to as a "crappy" bonsai... But, what he does not get, and
probally will never get, is that's not what is important... and not the whole
point of the exercise. Besides... even "Great" bonsai, often were once "Crappy"
little trees, that some one made "Great".

With all due respects I never complained, or belittled the tree we both know you are talking about, it actually is a pretty good tree. What I complained about is your suggestion that Subnet go ahead and make a crapy bonsai out of it even though you acknowledged that you knew better. I have been pilloried a time or two for using nursery trees that many consider a waste of time, and crappy trees. As to things I get, don't get, and may never get, I have not seen anything from you that would suggest you have anything to offer anyone but an arrogant self righteous opinion of your self. We used to call individuals who think like this as being legends in their own minds.

 

[october]

What an exciting thread. Just finally sat down and really read it through.
I like the varying thoughts on why the US is a bit behind the eight ball on having quality bonsai.

I figured Id throw in my two cents as this does directly impact me more than anything thing else on these boards I've ever read, or written in, for that matter.
Bonsai needs to become more ingrained in Americans minds as living art sculpture, with better material available to start, then be more refined and presented as such. But there are reasons we don't see this.
To preface this, I have been teaching beginner bonsai classes since March of 2003. I started teaching more advanced classes when demand dictated it. At which time I had guest artists visit the nursery. I worked on filling spaces months before for artists such as Steve Pilacik, Suthin Sukosolvisit , Mike Rogers among many others over the past ten years. This would be one time classes. There were put on a monthly to bi-weekly basis to bring in not only current, but new initiates into the hobby. To not only generate new customers, but also try to create awareness what it takes to create good quality material for them to work in class. Also, to show what it takes to create good finished Bonsai. This has been an uphill battle for sure.
For one thing, for most customers, it is of passing interest. They like the looks of the trees, but just cannot fathom the prices that 20 years of someones life training a 12 inch tall tree can command. Plus they don't want to take the time to create something comparable. Its too much work for a culture that wants instant gratification. I spend most of my teaching by explaining that its not in the finished product, it's, "the doing". Although being able to show a tree properly is also big in our classes. It is slowly building an audience in my area, but it takes time to ingrain it to someones psyche that they are really going to have to place a high priority on these trees to be successful.

I think that a lot of our culture is removed from the appreciation of and inherent beauty of nature in general. And this is not to say that everyone reading this board and others do not have an appreciation of said beauty. If you are on a board talking and learning about trees, you, unfortunately are still a tiny minority of our Americans who in fact loves and reveres trees. The trick is to get the masses to feel at least a percentage of what most of us feel when we see true beauty in a finished container.
I think there are places in America where the public is informed of these Representatives of beauty, but it has been woefully underfunded, under promoted, and misunderstood in most parts of our country. Even where it is promoted heavily most of the masses have no idea it exists. Its still exotic, and not even on the radar.
William Valavanis has been promoting true bonsai in America for years, and has a great following and a wonderful display professionally done to show for it. Suthin, Boon, Roy, Rodney, and many, many others have done an excellent job of teaching and promoting the Art form for years and have also shown many uninitiated what true beauty can be achieved, but it still doesn't stick for most. I think that just now I am hearing true "masters" or professionals are now taking apprentices (not students, but those living and breathing bonsai on site full time) to actually have 2 and 4 year programs to learn what it takes to create quality pieces. This is HUGE for the future quality of bonsai in America. On the front end, maybe the amount of Masters coming up will surpass the amount of Masters passing to the great beyond. Until recently, I was worried this was the case. The fact that there are 10+ artists coming to the American fold, Japanese trained and accredited or soon to be is a positive for sure. These professional practitioners are setting up bonsai nurseries, selling finished or nearly finished trees only. This is HUGE. This is telling me the appreciators of Bonsai are actually willing to pay the prices that finish bonsai command. Bring the quality in, create the awareness, be willing to pay for said quality and artistic beauty.
The masses need to not scoff at a quality ten year old tree that's 125.00 , then go to a high end Steakhouse with their missus and the kids and eat a 150.00 meal.
If enough folks are willing to pay for better stock, pay for professional instruction from someone who spent years of their life learning from someone who is also accredited from someone else , pay for material, pay for new pots and tools. And the new, young, exciting bonsai professionals are continuing to create more customers and future bonsai artists through teaching or other means, who are willing to repeat the process, ( do you see a pattern here?)
Have more bonsai displays open to the public, more demos, more awareness, make it apart of our culture, not just a fringe art as it is now. We have 50-60 fairly impressive events and displays a year throughout the USA, maybe more. We need 2000 a year to make this more ingrained in the public's collective minds.
If priorities change, Bonsai will succeed.
If it doesn't, I'm going to cook steaks.

Very accurate and well phrased daytona. On a side note, Suthin Sukolsolvisit was my first bonsai teacher.

I have known for many years that unless I start shelling out big bucks, my bonsai will not be the high end exhibition bonsai I would like. The longer I am in bonsai (going on 15 years) the more this fact is in my face. Basically, I spend my time and money looking for great material. To be more specific, my money goes towards the trees almost exclusively. Not high end or custom pots, scrolls or stands. I have a small collection of trees that I have worked for years on. None were thousand dollar material to start with. Some were around $30-$40. Like the Hinoki I recently posted. Took 10 years to get it into shape. These factors leave me having done a lot of work and studying to produce a small, but nice collection. Half of which are still in training.

Given these fianancial factors, how accurate are we in assessing other's bonsai and bonsai skill. Here is a hypothetical situation about what I mean. 2 skilled artists. One, starts with a $25 juniper, because his budget it tight, he spends the next 8 years training this tree. In the end, he has a very nice bonsai, but not a high end exhibition tree. The other artist, has more funds and access to better material. He or she starts out with a 300 year old mountain hemlock. He does his work to it and within 2-3 years has an incredible bonsai. Practially ready for Japan quality exhibition. Who's tree will be remembered... Who will win the award....who will be considered as having greater skill...

My point here is that I believe money does play a part in the learning, progression and recognition of the bonsai artist. It can be an obstacle and may play a part in the progression of US bonsai. There comes a time when people are in bonsai long enough, they find out that the more they spend, the better chance they have of creating a good bonsai. They also find out that workshops with masters can cost around $120 per hour. So with the cost of material and the workshop. You are getting into the thousands of dollars now. In one afternoon. This is enough to make many people feel that this may not be the art for me.

Rob

 

[daytona1911]

good call. I understand the argument to practice on inexpensive material to develop your skill . But after a certain skill level , the material is the limiting factor for the ultimate development time and quality ceiling

 

[Vance Wood]

good call. I understand the argument to practice on inexpensive material to develop your skill . But after a certain skill level , the material is the limiting factor for the ultimate development time and quality ceiling

I used to agree with this point of view, it is after all logical. However; after looking at some of the Graham Potter videos, two in particular dealing with Yews, I am not so sure this is the entire problem.

Over the years I have seen some really spectacular bonsai made of some really crappy stock and on the other side, some really crappy bonsai made of some really spectacular and expensive material.

You cannot argue that the opportunity to create really good bonsai goes up as the quality of the material goes up, that's a no brainer. But; I also believe that to many, this is an excuse to settle into this funk of being satisfied with mediocre bonsai because you cannot afford the master quality bonsai material. Perhaps I shouldn't use the word excuse, it's more a conviction of an unchangeable level of development.

Elephants in a circus are generally trained to stay in a location by putting a chain around an ankle. When they were young the chain was anchored to a stake driven deep into the ground. As the Elephant ages it is often only necessary for the chain to put around the ankle for the Elephant to stay in place. The animal has over time been programed to think it can't go anywhere because of the chain so it stays put. The point is, it does not go anywhere not because it can't but because it believes it can't. The exception is the runnamuck freaked out animal we hear about once in a while.

 

[Dav4]

I used to agree with this point of view, it is after all logical. However; after looking at some of the Graham Potter videos, two in particular dealing with Yews, I am not so sure this is the entire problem.

Vance, there's is no denying Graham Potter's skill at carving and styling. In fact, I would suggest that he is one of the more talented PROFESSIONAL artists in Europe and cut his teeth working on stock like this. Using him to prove your argument doesn't make any sense. Are you saying that another professional bonsai artist based in the USA couldn't do something similar either with this stock or something similar? I'd love to see what Suthin Sukosolvisit or Dan Robinson would do with either tree.
For the record, though, the material used in those videos was definitely not crap to begin with. That "skip" yew has a great lower trunk with descent taper and lots of branches to work with. Graham states this at the beginning of the video. Same thing with that "stump" tree, though maybe not as obvious. Definitely, not "sows ear" material, imo.

 

[Vance Wood]

Vance, there's is no denying Graham Potter's skill at carving and styling. In fact, I would suggest that he is one of the more talented PROFESSIONAL artists in Europe and cut his teeth working on stock like this. Using him to prove your argument doesn't make any sense. Are you saying that another professional bonsai artist based in the USA couldn't do something similar either with this stock or something similar? I'd love to see what Suthin Sukosolvisit would do with either tree.
For the record, though, the material used in those videos was definitely not crap to begin with. That "skip" yew has a great lower trunk with descent taper and lots of branches to work with. Graham states this at the beginning of the video. Same thing with that "stump" tree, though maybe not as obvious. Definitely, not "sows ear" material, imo.

What I am saying or trying to say, understanding that of late I have not been able to get my point across without causing someone to go ballistic, or view what I say as a personal affront, is that we should all realize that we can create work like this. It's not the material that's at fault, it's us. I'm not saying that no one you mentioned could not do this, I am saying that we can and should all do this.

As to the skip yew: If you or I brought this to a work shop we would probably be told that it was a hopeless tree, the same with the fire wood Yew. I am not trying to elevate Graham Potter to some legendary pedestal, it is that his videos are there where all of us can see the kind of transformations are possible and that's all. He is just another guy that puts his pants on the same way we all do and if he can do this we all can do this.

 

[Dav4]

As to the skip yew: If you or I brought this to a work shop we would probably be told that it was a hopeless tree, the same with the fire wood Yew.

Honestly, I think there are lots of people working with material like this...I know I am:.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

You guys should watch the movie "Jiro Dreams of Sushi".

Not everyone is willing or able to dedicate their life to the mastery of a single subject. Time, training, raw talent, and the desire to improve oneself all go into making a bonsai master. You could argue that any time or energy spent on anything OTHER than bonsai diminishes this potential.

I have interests other than bonsai. You could argue that every minute I spend mountain biking is a minute I COULD be spending on my trees. Therefore my trees are not as good as they could be, and my skill is not as advanced as it could be. I acknowledge both points, and am fine with them I am not ever going to be a bonsai master. Best I can shoot for is a bonsai "enthusiast" with a few "nice trees".

I don't know that this is a condemnation of bonsai in America. I would rather have a hundred thousand people who are interested and dabble in bonsai, than restrict the hobby to only the handful who dedicate their lives to it.

 

[Gene Deci]

You guys should watch the movie "Jiro Dreams of Sushi".

Not everyone is willing or able to dedicate their life to the mastery of a single subject. Time, training, raw talent, and the desire to improve oneself all go into making a bonsai master. You could argue that any time or energy spent on anything OTHER than bonsai diminishes this potential.

I have interests other than bonsai. You could argue that every minute I spend mountain biking is a minute I COULD be spending on my trees. Therefore my trees are not as good as they could be, and my skill is not as advanced as it could be. I acknowledge both points, and am fine with them I am not ever going to be a bonsai master. Best I can shoot for is a bonsai "enthusiast" with a few "nice trees".

I don't know that this is a condemnation of bonsai in America. I would rather have a hundred thousand people who are interested and dabble in bonsai, than restrict the hobby to only the handful who dedicate their lives to it.

Well said B-nut. One more point. The time I have spent working on my trees over the years has been a pure joy - an end in itself. If I had worried all the time about my trees not stacking up against Japanese masterpieces, that joy would have been lost.

 

[daytona1911]

Yes. Graham is amazing. And yes, that material was amazing to start with, it was a great canvass to show his skill for sure. In the states, there are Artists who rise to the challenge to create mediocre stock into acceptable bonsai. I love the Fact someone brought up Suthin because he is great at taking a flawed piece stock and turning it into an attribute. That guy has been an inspiration of mine for over ten years. He has been to the shop a few times and I have had one on one sessions with him and he never fails to amaze. A perfect example of getting the younger collected material and making the best out of it.
I've also saw some accomplished artists take a flawed piece of material at club workshops and state it as such, when I thought there was a gem in there. I think it has to do with what you are used to dealing with as well. Many artists are used to dealing with amazing material, and know that it will turn out amazing in record time. But others may require more work than they are worth when you factor in the time and fact that these artists have access to top material, or at least material that has had most of the flaws rectified by previous growers/developers.
Remember, these artists are not hobbyists. They get paid for their time. If a piece of material requires 10 hours of work, will it be worth what you are charged in labor when it is completed? As hobbyists most don't think of time spent on tree translates to money lost or earned. If it is the artists tree, he may deem it not worthy. Not because it isn't, but because it isn't worth his time to make it worthy.
When you bring a 20 dollar 10 year old collected podocarpus pulled out of the ground only the previous year to a visiting artist, don't be disappointed when a 200 dollar 40 year old podocarpus pulled three years ago your neighbor has at the class ends up as a fantastic tree in the same amount of time. Not to say the 20 dollar tree isn't going to be something great, it may just take more time, and more attention to detail to show as well, although all trees shown should have great attention to detail. This goes without saying.
Also, it may take having an artist used to dealing with less than ideal material, since many are used to styling more appropriate material. That said, that is one reason I think some bonsai are lacking here in America. Good material may be collected ten years before it is worked. Too many trees are rushed to develop. Again, its the instant gratification of America. Patience will end up with better result.
Seeing a solid stump with no taper or buds and making it into a decent tree can happen. It can happen with advanced techniques fairly quickly, or patience fairly slowly . In 5-15 years it can be great. But buying a stump that was collected 15 years ago and been developed during that time will result in better end result. Or getting a tree that already had amazing character, deadwood, base, then worked for 20 years is going to make a better tree. No mater how much you argue the point.
This is coming from someone who collected and still collect everything. I make cuttings and sew seeds on everything. Saying we are not as good in the states because we don't have as good material hurts, because I know may material is good. In fifty years, if it lives, itll be great...hopefully.
But yamadori collected 50 years ago in Europe or in china or Japan is great. And will create great bonsai.
To say we don't have great trees in America is also wrong. We do. And its slowly getting better. And the starting point is getting better. The material coming out of (and soon to to grown) many bonsai nurseries will become more abundant. And so long as people buy it, bonsai will prevail.

 

[Vance Wood]

You guys should watch the movie "Jiro Dreams of Sushi".

Not everyone is willing or able to dedicate their life to the mastery of a single subject. Time, training, raw talent, and the desire to improve oneself all go into making a bonsai master. You could argue that any time or energy spent on anything OTHER than bonsai diminishes this potential.

I have interests other than bonsai. You could argue that every minute I spend mountain biking is a minute I COULD be spending on my trees. Therefore my trees are not as good as they could be, and my skill is not as advanced as it could be. I acknowledge both points, and am fine with them I am not ever going to be a bonsai master. Best I can shoot for is a bonsai "enthusiast" with a few "nice trees".

I don't know that this is a condemnation of bonsai in America. I would rather have a hundred thousand people who are interested and dabble in bonsai, than restrict the hobby to only the handful who dedicate their lives to it.

I agree with you but on the other hand, I don't think it is right or fair to be telling newbies that in order to have really good bonsai they have to go out and spend really good money on really good material.

I also don't think that everyone who gets into bonsai really wants to become a bonsai master, or even a good amateur, but I do believe that most of them want to be the best they can be within the circumstances they have to deal with in their own lives. In other words they want to go as far as they can go. I also don't think it is right that people's limits should be restricted by an attitude they have adopted from what they have been told. "I/you can't make better bonsai because I/you don't use better material".

I resent embracing mediocrity and teaching it as the final goal in bonsai, which is what we have been doing. I believe that excellence in bonsai is possible and it does not involve spending big bucks, it just involves the belief that you can, and the desire to do so.