Yeah, I'm a new guy asking about watering

[AGentleman]

Hi Capt Paul,

With all this talk about how the substrate affects watering, I wanted to make sure you're aware of Marky Scott's resource about soil physics. I can't figure out how to link to it but you'll find it in the resources section.

Thank you for starting this thread, it's helping me connect the dots...
Greg

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I'm a bit skeptical of the chopstick method myself. It assumes that the material of the chopstick has the same water retention properties as the water-retentive element of your soil mix. I've had times in the past where once the chopstick is fully saturated it would never dry out under the surface even when the soil is completely dry around it. That being said, it's recommended alot so it must work for many but just something to consider.

This is absolutely right.
But this circles back to 'good enough' which in essence means that plants will do just fine with a little more or a little less. Still good to be aware of the possibilities.
If a chopstick retains water for longer than your soil, and you notice it, then you're evolving beyond the chopstick method and learned how to water.

A chopped chopstick though, shouldn't stay wet for longer than the soil. Did you use one with a sealed end?
Anyhow, I use cheaper meat skewers, kebab sticks, satay sticks, toooooothpicks, or whatever people want to call them, long and thin and can hold about a hand full of chicken meat. They dry up as fast as the soil does for me.
I've noticed bamboo can take a long time to dry once it gets saturated. Pine on the other hand is perfect, but less durable because of it.

 

[Gabler]

I find "modern" bonsai substrate is more useful for professionals than the rest of us. I have a job. I'm not always home during daylight hours. I need something that's at least a little bit water-retentive, or my trees will die of thirst. Thus, I always add an organic component. The tradeoff is that I do see fungal issues if I water too much.

 

[shimbrypaku]

I'm a bit skeptical of the chopstick method myself. It assumes that the material of the chopstick has the same water retention properties as the water-retentive element of your soil mix. I've had times in the past where once the chopstick is fully saturated it would never dry out under the surface even when the soil is completely dry around it. That being said, it's recommended alot so it must work for many but just something to consider.

I have the same experience with the chop stick method. The bonsai soil would be dry and the chop stick would still be 50 % wet, could be the type of chop stick material.

Thanks

 

[dbonsaiw]

I find "modern" bonsai substrate is more useful for professionals than the rest of us. I have a job. I'm not always home during daylight hours. I need something that's at least a little bit water-retentive, or my trees will die of thirst. Thus, I always add an organic component. The tradeoff is that I do see fungal issues if I water too much.

I’m far from a professional. My substrate is 80% inorganic and 20% bark. The bark is my organic component. I find this mix really makes life easy watering wise. I tend to mess up basically every step in the development process - the only thing that works well is my watering and I attribute that to the soil 100%.

 

[Joe Dupre']

Thought experiment: Fill an 8"x10" bonsai pot with a 50/50 mixture of lava and pea gravel. Pour a half gallon of water over the soil. Wait 1 hour and repeat. Repeat 5 more times. At the end of the experiment, the soil will be no wetter than the original watering. Moral of story: given the right soil mix, it is almost impossible to "overwater" your trees. The trick is finding the right balance of materials for your trees, in your yard and in your climate.

 

[darzuo]

given the right soil mix, it is almost impossible to "overwater" your trees

I tend to agree. The way I see it, the probles lies in that all your various soils in your various trees will inevitably have different levels of root occupancy and soil degradation which begin to inhibit the airy structure. I think this is where problems start to occur and it's no longer as simple as flooding everything every watering.

 

[August44]

I've been doing this for 5 years or so and still struggle with the watering thing. There are trees that can stand a lot of water but not sitting water so the substrate needs to drain well and lots of drainage holes are important. One has to be aware of trees that have a lot of root growth and need to be re-potted. The roots can get thick enough to start plugging things up. I have come to the conclusion that pumice, lava, and screened small bark chunks works best for me. Last year I tried using some organic soils with the mix instead of the bark. I think the bark is better. I also tried to use chopsticks but I have 75-100 trees ( I know, I know) and running around feeling chopsticks was time consuming and inaccurate as mentioned. And then, after they have been in the soil for a bit and jammed in and out of pumice and lava all the time, they break. I went to fiberglass chop sticks from amazon. I sharpened all of them so they went through the particles a lot better that the wood ones. I don't have great feeling in my hands so when I pull the sticks out I place on my cheek and then remove it pretty fast. There is always a little breeze and it goes by your face you can tell if the stick was wet.

I do wish they made a water meter tool that will give honest results in particle substrate. Those cheap digital ones do not work.

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[Michael P]

Cheap give-away chopsticks from your local Asian restaurant work best. Meat skewers are good too, but they rot quickly.

 

[Calnicky]

Agree with the points everyone else has said. Also a note with granular inorganic soil, overwatering is much less of a concern than many people think. Root rot from overwatering is only an issue if the soil stays waterlogged and oxygen can't penetrate, and root tips begin to die as a result. With an inorganic mix, each watering draws air through the soil, so root rot is very unlikely. This is assuming the soil is relatively fresh and has not broken down too much. If drainage starts slowing down that would indicate a need for a repot and you should be a little careful with watering too much at that point until a repot is done. In general, with a free draining soil mix I would err on the side of watering too much than too little.

I agree with Darzuo that overwatering is much less of a concern (in inorganic soil). I've been studying with Andrew Robson in Portland, OR, and he thinks people are too concerned about overwatering. Also he recommends watering even in our Pacific Northwest wet winters as it allows the soil to become aereated with fresh oxygen as the water percolates through the soil.