Yeah, I'm a new guy asking about watering

[Cap'n Paul]

First, thanks to all those who generously offer their time to share their expertise across the spectrum of questions us new guys ask.

I'd like to ask about watering and how to know when.

We all know (or should know) that different species and maybe even different varieties have different requirements for frequency and/or volume of water. What I have trouble with is judging the moisture content of my substrate. When there is sufficient organic mater it isn't a problem for me to determine how much moisture is in a pot. But when the substrate is mainly inorganic, such as a mixture of Akadama and pumice or lava rock, I don't know how to determine the moisture level.

I confess to being color-blind and that prevents me from judging based on how moisture changes the intensity of substrate colors. And with coarse substrate particles, I can't judge based on touch. Some watering instructions refer to the moisture level at some point below the surface and with coarse inorganic particles it is somewhat disruptive to dig down and even then I'm faced with the already mentioned issues.

What suggestions do you experts have for me?

Thanks!

 

[littletreefarmer]

My go-to is normally the color of the akadama in my mix or feeling the surface of the soil, so not a big help there for you. What others have done when learning to water is to put popsicle sticks or a chopstick in the pot, then pull it out to check the moisture level in the substrate. They also sell probed moisture meters, but that's more than likely overkill.

It also really helps a lot to have your trees in the same general mix, or similar. I use slightly different ratios for conifers, deciduous, and tropicals but have a standard across those broad categories. It is difficult to overwater with a nice, coarse substrate.

Remember to keep in mind environmental factors, changing seasons, etc. as well (trees will slow way down on drinking as they go into dormancy). And, obviously, polishing the skill just comes with time and practice.

 

[Cap'n Paul]

My go-to is normally the color of the akadama in my mix or feeling the surface of the soil, so not a big help there for you. What others have done when learning to water is to put popsicle sticks or a chopstick in the pot, then pull it out to check the moisture level in the substrate. They also sell probed moisture meters, but that's more than likely overkill.

It also really helps a lot to have your trees in the same general mix, or similar. I use slightly different ratios for conifers, deciduous, and tropicals but have a standard across those broad categories. It is difficult to overwater with a nice, coarse substrate.

Remember to keep in mind environmental factors, changing seasons, etc. as well (trees will slow way down on drinking as they go into dormancy). And, obviously, polishing the skill just comes with time and practice.

Thanks for a lot of helpful info! The chop stick idea had occurred to me, but I'm glad to get validation on that.

 

[littletreefarmer]

It might still be difficult to see the color gradient on a chop stick, but you should be able to feel the moisture on it a bit easier. Good luck man, getting your watering down is one of the first big hurdles. You got this, though!

 

[Russ1]

When unsure i move a bit of the top substrate with a finger to look below the surface and see the color change if wet or dry since the surface can be dry due to wind, temp etc. If you use a coarse substrate and not a potting soil type it is more difficult to over water.

 

[Michigan Tree Murderer]

Weight of the pot can be a good guide. Pick the pot up before you water and after you water. The repetition will help give you a good indication of water needs.

 

[Scriv]

I leave steak skewers in all my pots. They are thinner and displace fewer roots, are sharp so they penetrate the root mass, and are far cheaper than a digital moisture probe.

 

[Orion_metalhead]

The best answer I can give is to cater your soil media to the tree in a way that allows watering on your time frame.

For me, I know I can water once a day in the morning so all my conifers are in a substrate that I know I can water once a day in the morning and that wont become overly wet or dry for that period of time.

For deciduous, same thing, but a bit more retentive, since they prefer a damper overall soil usually.

So thats how I generally say you can get the best results and mitigate the need to understand watering on a very meticulous level.

I still try to do a meticulous soil/water check every weekend or two, so I can adjust my regular watering. Meaning, checking the moisture in the soil by touch and making sure on established trees I get them fully watered, even dunking if I question the ability to get moisture to the core under a wider nebari tree or the soil has become repellent.

 

[AGentleman]

Hi there,
Just a quick note to let you know you're not alone.
I've been watering my trees for two years now and I still can't get it right. I use a chopstick as a dipstick, feel around with my fingers, and look to see if the substrate is lighter.
I know when the soil is wet but I have big trouble telling the difference between moist and dry with inorganic soil.
It's especially frustrating when some trees response to overwatering is the same as to underwatering!
BTW I'm also colour blind but only find that it makes it difficult to see the "bright" green weeds!
Good luck and let me know if you discover the magic bullet.
Greg

 

[darzuo]

Agree with the points everyone else has said. Also a note with granular inorganic soil, overwatering is much less of a concern than many people think. Root rot from overwatering is only an issue if the soil stays waterlogged and oxygen can't penetrate, and root tips begin to die as a result. With an inorganic mix, each watering draws air through the soil, so root rot is very unlikely. This is assuming the soil is relatively fresh and has not broken down too much. If drainage starts slowing down that would indicate a need for a repot and you should be a little careful with watering too much at that point until a repot is done. In general, with a free draining soil mix I would err on the side of watering too much than too little.

 

[Paradox]

Thanks for a lot of helpful info! The chop stick idea had occurred to me, but I'm glad to get validation on that.

Ill second the chopstick method. Great way to learn and become comfortable with watering

 

[Cap'n Paul]

BTW I'm also colour blind but only find that it makes it difficult to see the "bright" green weeds!
Good luck and let me know if you discover the magic bullet.
Greg

lol! I feel your pain. I'm green-brown color blind. I can't tell when I've killed them.
Thanks.

 

[Joe Dupre']

This helped me when I first got started. Imagine a big sponge dipped in water and dripping wet. Now wring out the sponge with firm pressure. What's left is just about the proper moisture level for your soil. I second the pot weight method, too.

 

[Wulfskaar]

I think one of the good things about having granular soil is that it's much harder to overwater.

Even if you water before the top particles are dry, the draining water will still suck air into the voids between the soil particles, giving the roots air with the water.

Please correct me if this is wrong, but I'd rather slightly over-water in well-draining granular soil than under-water. When my soil looks slightly dry on top, I go ahead and water (when using granular soil).

 

[Michael P]

Apologies if I missed it, but no one mentioned how long the chopstick stays in the pot. It should be in the pot all the time except when being used to check moisture.

 

[AGentleman]

Apologies if I missed it, but no one mentioned how long the chopstick stays in the pot. It should be in the pot all the time except when being used to check moisture.

I've been wondering that too but been too chicken to ask
I've been sticking it in for a while and coming back after 10 or so minutes....

 

[darzuo]

I'm a bit skeptical of the chopstick method myself. It assumes that the material of the chopstick has the same water retention properties as the water-retentive element of your soil mix. I've had times in the past where once the chopstick is fully saturated it would never dry out under the surface even when the soil is completely dry around it. That being said, it's recommended alot so it must work for many but just something to consider.

 

[gschup]

Watering perfectly is very hard, but watering well enough is quite doable.

I started only two years ago and worried quite a lot about this topic. So far, not a single tree died during my growing seasons. I had a few casualties over the winters, though (-17°C).

If you work with modern substrates like akadama or pumice and check your trees daily morning and evening, most species should survive somehow. Optimizing for perfect growth and health comes with time, I guess

The over watering root myth

To a thread at bonsai talk overwatering myth I wrote this: The subject is close to my heart since many years. Bonsai don't die of root-ro...

walter-pall-bonsai.blogspot.com

 

[Treelord]

@Wulfskaar hit it spot on. If you are new to caring for plants and trees, one of the wisest decisions you can make is invest in granular and inorganic material. Pumice, lava rock, zeolite, thick perlite, akadama($$$ rich boys?), grit maybe, crushed brick..

I have been caring for plants and trees my whole life and i still go for maximum drainage, that way you have only underwatering to be afraid of.

Fill up on pumice and water every day, after all we are obsessed maniacs here..

 

[dbonsaiw]

“Any fool can water well” - Walter Pall. Answers a lot of question of why watering never seemed to be an issue for me.

I use granular bonsai soil on everything (I have no “finished” trees). It’s money well spent.

After all, how much water can granular soil even hold? Does it ever really get “wet” in the sense of potting soil?

I have to collect the water when watering my tropicals when they are inside for the winter. Two vachelia, each in a 5 gallon container, each getting 2 gallons of water at watering (yeah, it’s a lot). I believe less than 1/2 gallon of water remains in total in both containers after the water has drained.