Yamadori Limber Pine

[I_I_am_not_a_cat]

I collected this Limber Pine in mid November of 2023 and have been pleasantly surprised with how it has handled removal and being put into a box so far.



In June I decided to remove some branches in order to help control some reverse taper. I have a tendency to make rash decisions so I immediately felt remorse but 3 months later it still seems to be doing fine. The following pictures are from today and I am curious about the reverse taper and if I should remove the 2 lower branches or if what I already removed may prove to be enough. I am not ready to make any other decisions about design yet, but happy to get input on that as well.







Collected in the Cascade Mountains, Central Oregon at about 5600 ft elevation.

 

[Mike Westervelt]

Seems unlikely that you will "fix" the reverse taper in a container in your lifetime, also are you sure it's flexilis?
range maps I'm seeing don't show it growing in Oregon except maybe in the Blue Mountains.
Also the more foliage left on a collected tree the faster the recovery, but sounds like you knew that

 

[I_I_am_not_a_cat]

Edited to post reply below with proper formatting and quote.

 

[I_I_am_not_a_cat]

are you sure it's flexilis?
range maps I'm seeing don't show it growing in Oregon except maybe in the Blue Mountains.
Also the more foliage left on a collected tree the faster the recovery, but sounds like you knew that

Now that you point that out, I guess I am not sure it is Limber Pine--but it matches the descriptions and images I have been able to find. I didn't think to look at the range maps, though.

There are quite a few of these in the area where I collected it, but most of them are around this size and smaller. I did find one that was maybe 10-12 feet tall, but the timber in the immediate area seem to be mainly Lodgepole Pines.

I would be grateful for any help with identification.

I suppose that it could be Western White Pine. I had rejected that as their needles seem to be longer in all of the images I found, but it fits the range.

 

[MaciekA]

Image #1 at a glance looks like a limber pine and ID would be effortless if we had the 1:1 original full resolution of that picture. The images in your post are embedded into the post (not tappable/clickable) and very low resolution so it isn't easy to get up close and see much.

Anyway, it is definitely not a lodgepole at the very least.You can see the silhouettes of some 5 needle clusters in some of the shots and that first picture cannot be a lodgepole. Whitebark is always a possibility but I'd still bet on limber from that first shot. The first shot also is very un WWP-like to me but the other shots muddy the waters.

IMO this work was too aggressive and too soon. If you saw how long it takes Hagedorn to start on a limber pine after it comes to the garden, you'd want to sit down real fast

 

[Cruiser]

Range wise, you are most likely looking at western white or white bark pine.
Give the needles a rub in both directions. Western white are finely serrated and feel a bit rough. White bark pine needles are smooth.

If you have photos of the collection area, check those out. Look for any cones lying around or lack thereof.

 

[I_I_am_not_a_cat]

Image #1 at a glance looks like a limber pine and ID would be effortless if we had the 1:1 original full resolution of that picture. The images in your post are embedded into the post (not tappable/clickable) and very low resolution so it isn't easy to get up close and see much.

Anyway, it is definitely not a lodgepole at the very least.You can see the silhouettes of some 5 needle clusters in some of the shots and that first picture cannot be a lodgepole. Whitebark is always a possibility but I'd still bet on limber from that first shot. The first shot also is very un WWP-like to me.

IMO this work was too aggressive and too soon. If you saw how long it takes Hagedorn to start on a limber pine after it comes to the garden, you'd want to sit down real fast

I can slow down quite a bit if that is best -- I am not in a hurry, just a bit over-zealous at times. I will try to use the "Attach files" button to see if I can get a better image up.

 

[MaciekA]

Updated images look higher res for me. Still leaning limber!

 

[August44]

Nice tree, I like it. If it's a 5 needle pine I think it is either a White Bark pine or a Limber pine. To me, and from my experience, the needles are to short for a Western White. Also, your tree has a lot of branches up and down the trunk and most limber pines that I have seen, have branches then a space then more branches. Everything looks like a white bark pine to me and I see them all the time where I am. What altitude was that collected if you know? If that is a White Bark pine, be more that careful with who you show that to as they have very recently been put on the endangered list by the Feds and something bad could happen if they find you have collected one on Federal land.

 

[sdavis]

I am going with whitebark......

 

[Mike Westervelt]

Limber do not grow in central Oregon per USGS

 

[August44]

Limber do not grow in central Oregon per USGS
View attachment 568735

It wouldn't take much to transfer seeds via the wind or birds from the Blues Mts though.

 

[MaciekA]

The following limber pine in Oregon is not a 100% clean research-grade consensus, however, for the moment, it does pass iNaturalist's research grade tagging criteria:

limber pine (Pinus flexilis)

limber pine from Wallowa County, OR, USA on August 28, 2023 at 12:28 PM by Dayne Galash. Part of a small, isolated, old population. With Pseudotsuga menziesii

www.inaturalist.org

It's the only entry for limber pine in Oregon on iNaturalist at all -- not exactly "central". Very close to the little dot on the wikipedia map above.

 

[I_I_am_not_a_cat]

So after reading more about both limber and whitebark pine it seems that I need to go back out to the site and see if I can find some cones. As mentioned above, there is only 1 area in Oregon known to have limber pines, so most likely to be whitebark. Also, I tested Cruiser's suggestion about the needles--they are smooth like whitebark but I am not certain what Limber is supposed to feel like.

 

[Cruiser]

So after reading more about both limber and whitebark pine it seems that I need to go back out to the site and see if I can find some cones. As mentioned above, there is only 1 area in Oregon known to have limber pines, so most likely to be whitebark. Also, I tested Cruiser's suggestion about the needles--they are smooth like whitebark but I am not certain what Limber is supposed to feel like.

FYI. If it is white bark be prepared to not find any cones…


From Conifers of California ( R. Lanner)

I spent a whole day hiking at 7000’ and was able to find only one partially whole cone. They crumble so easily.. probably to facilitate collection by the nut crackers.
2 year old cones should be approaching maturity this time of year. Look in tree tops at the ends of branches, or the ground. Also keep an eye out for the nut crackers!

 

[Kaden Becker]

Yeah Limbers don't grow anywhere in the Cascades, from the looks of it I'd say that's a Whitebark for sure.

I would watch the trunk for blistering/cankering or any sort of lesion as five needle pines (especially Whitebark) are very susceptible to white pine blister rust.
I'm a little concerned that the inverse taper on your tree may be partially caused by this rust.

 

[clem]

hi, i have a limber pine from seeds.
Here are pics but i dunno if it will help you ->








New candles ->

 

[mwar15]

It’s a white pine. That area has the genetics where over time the needles have reduced. Add that with poor nutrition, environmental factors the needles aren’t long like many white pines.