Wulfskaar's Japanese Black Pine #1

[Wulfskaar]

Here is one of my first batch of seed-grown JBP started in the fall of 2020. Thread here: https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/damping-off.46132/

On this particular tree, I've pretty much let it grow, other than some candle pruning up top, so it's gone a bit wild. The nebari is weird with just a few thick roots that aren't radially oriented.

I basically see the future of the tree as everything from the first small, low branches and everything below that.

I'm not sure how to handle this tree.

1. How do I manage the long upper trunk and branches? I want the lower branches to gain a lot of strength.
2. Is there anything I can do for the nebari? Maybe look at making it a neagari?
3. There is one root going right down the middle. Should I remove that next spring? Or try to push it outward?
4. Can/should I instead go for a larger design?

Any advice on what I can do to improve this tree would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Shibui]

1. How do I manage the long upper trunk and branches? I want the lower branches to gain a lot of strength.

Most pines are apical dominant so all their growing effort goes into the highest point but I guess you already know that hence the question. To get lower branches growing you need to suppress the upper growth. That can be as drastic as chopping the entire tall trunk or just reduce it's strength.
Presuming you are still trying for increase in trunk thickness. so I would not chop completely at this stage. I can see a couple of possibilities to keep the growth of the upper trunk but suppress vigour enough to encourage the little low branches.
1. Strip old needles and remove most of the side shoots from the trunk, leaving 1 or maybe 2 shoots to grow. Hopefully that will shock the tree enough to convince it to put some effort into the low shoots - just in case you come back to finish the job on the top. Pro of this is that the growth is now way above the lower shoots so they won't be shaded. Con is the tree will tend to blow over with every windy day because of the tall trunk.
2. Chop the trunk above the middle branch. That should also be enough reduction to get some growth down below while still leaving a 'sacrifice' branch which can grow and thicken the lower trunk. Can't see the angle from the photos but if it grows over the lower shoots I'd try wiring to bend it away to allow sun. Pro: sacrifice branch is lower so won't catch as much wind. Con: growing point is closer to the low shoots and may compete.

2. Is there anything I can do for the nebari? Maybe look at making it a neagari?

Need to check the roots to see if they have good lines to be neagari. Not all random roots look good but you can probably still manipulate and bend the roots to achieve a pleasing shape at this stage.
Covering the nebari while the tree grows out could stimulate some more surface roots. Pines are not always great at new roots but they do naturally develop surface roots and I've often been pleasantly surprised with how many roots develop without any extra help if you provide the right environment.
You could also try stimulating it a little. Some cuts through the bark of the roots and a little root hormone will often get new roots growing a bit quicker and where you want them. Obviously would need to cover the area well. Unfortunately, pines being pines, there is a risk of no roots and scars on the existing ones.

3. There is one root going right down the middle. Should I remove that next spring? Or try to push it outward?

You can try to push it outward but it depends where it originates and how flexible it is as to whether you'll achieve a good result.
Chopping is much quicker and easier but no going back.
I'd probably try the manipulation first with chop if bending doesn't work well.

4. Can/should I instead go for a larger design?

I don't think the trunk you have is conducive to a larger design - no taper, no attractive bends and very few branches to work with. That may give you a quicker result but not a good one IMHO.
I think your best bet is to take a longer term approach and work with the lower shoots. You could still grow a larger tree if you want to but develop it a bit at a time to include trunk taper, good bends and plenty of branching possibilities.

 

[Wulfskaar]

Thank you so much, @Shibui

I do intend to let it get significantly thicker at the bottom. I'm ok with taking a patient route.

Regarding my first question, I'd rather go for option 2 (for now), chopping above the first big branch. Eventually, I will chop it down low, just above the first set of branches. When is a good time to chop? I feel like I missed the boat on that for this year, as the candles have already extended.

As for the roots, I plan to repot it 11 months from now, so I'll learn more then about what's going on. I might try to get some more roots using the method you stated. I have rooting hormone at the ready. I'll also add a little soil to cover the nebari.

I now see a plan coming together in my head. Thanks again!

 

[Shibui]

Chopping above the middle branch is a good option. Slightly less trunk thickening maybe but much less trouble through the year methinks.
Just keep watch on relative growth rates as the active section is much closer to those low shoots. Maybe remove some of the old needles at some stage and, if necessary, one of the 2 growing tips on that branch, but only if you think the important low shoots are struggling.

Eventually, I will chop it down low, just above the first set of branches. When is a good time to chop? I feel like I missed the boat on that for this year, as the candles have already extended.

Why do you think you have 'missed the boat' for pruning?
IMHO, there's no such thing when pruning if the aim is simply to reduce height. Pruning at any time of year is highly unlikely to kill or severely injure any plant if you leave a suitable growing point as replacement.
If you consider that natural setbacks from storms and grazing animals occur at any time of year but plants are adapted to survive things like that. Pruning is simply a man made plant setback.
I'd be more than happy to lop back to that middle branch any time of year.

Pruning for specific regrowth is slightly different. Not because it would kill or injure the plant, but because we get a slightly different response at different times in the growth cycle.

 

[Wulfskaar]

Thanks again @Shibui! I really appreciate all the advice and knowledge.

 

[Bonsaidoodle]

Chopping above the middle branch is a good option. Slightly less trunk thickening maybe but much less trouble through the year methinks.
Just keep watch on relative growth rates as the active section is much closer to those low shoots. Maybe remove some of the old needles at some stage and, if necessary, one of the 2 growing tips on that branch, but only if you think the important low shoots are struggling.


Why do you think you have 'missed the boat' for pruning?
IMHO, there's no such thing when pruning if the aim is simply to reduce height. Pruning at any time of year is highly unlikely to kill or severely injure any plant if you leave a suitable growing point as replacement.
If you consider that natural setbacks from storms and grazing animals occur at any time of year but plants are adapted to survive things like that. Pruning is simply a man made plant setback.
I'd be more than happy to lop back to that middle branch any time of year.

Pruning for specific regrowth is slightly different. Not because it would kill or injure the plant, but because we get a slightly different response at different times in the growth cycle.

Chopping above the middle branch is a good option. Slightly less trunk thickening maybe but much less trouble through the year methinks.
Just keep watch on relative growth rates as the active section is much closer to those low shoots. Maybe remove some of the old needles at some stage and, if necessary, one of the 2 growing tips on that branch, but only if you think the important low shoots are struggling.


Why do you think you have 'missed the boat' for pruning?
IMHO, there's no such thing when pruning if the aim is simply to reduce height. Pruning at any time of year is highly unlikely to kill or severely injure any plant if you leave a suitable growing point as replacement.
If you consider that natural setbacks from storms and grazing animals occur at any time of year but plants are adapted to survive things like that. Pruning is simply a man made plant setback.
I'd be more than happy to lop back to that middle branch any time of year.

Pruning for specific regrowth is slightly different. Not because it would kill or injure the plant, but because we get a slightly different response at different times in the growth cycle.

Chopping above the middle branch is a good option. Slightly less trunk thickening maybe but much less trouble through the year methinks.
Just keep watch on relative growth rates as the active section is much closer to those low shoots. Maybe remove some of the old needles at some stage and, if necessary, one of the 2 growing tips on that branch, but only if you think the important low shoots are struggling.


Why do you think you have 'missed the boat' for pruning?
IMHO, there's no such thing when pruning if the aim is simply to reduce height. Pruning at any time of year is highly unlikely to kill or severely injure any plant if you leave a suitable growing point as replacement.
If you consider that natural setbacks from storms and grazing animals occur at any time of year but plants are adapted to survive things like that. Pruning is simply a man made plant setback.
I'd be more than happy to lop back to that middle branch any time of year.

Pruning for specific regrowth is slightly different. Not because it would kill or injure the plant, but because we get a slightly different response at different times in the growth cycle.

@Shibui can you take a look at my JBP? I would really appreciate hearing your feedback.


Thread 'Recently repotted JBP has browning needles'
https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/recently-repotted-jbp-has-browning-needles.68378/