Would nurseries or clubs pay for professional photos of their trees?

[Bonsai Noodles]

Not the typical post here!

I do freelance photography work here and there (mainly products). It just occurred to me that I could combine my interest in bonsai (more generally, treee) and photography into something commercially viable. But first, I wanted to gauge general thoughts around this.

Of all the nurseries around, I’ve only really seen Bonsai Mirai really hone their photography craft. It seems like there’s a huge lack of photography talent in this business (please call me out if I’m underestimating us). I’ve also seen pretty high quality photos from Mach5. That’s all I can think of right now though.

I’m wondering if people would be willing to pay for professional photos in this field — be it bonsai/tree/plant nurseries, clubs hosting shows. Is there enough demand for this you think? It seems very commercially important nowadays, yet I come across so many excel-table catalog tree nurseries. Photos are important! On the other hand, in the age of iPhone cameras, maybe there isn’t enough commercial interest, and this isn’t worth pursuing. I’d really like to see more Bonsai Mirai level photos though (not just in bonsai but tree nurseries, gardens, etc. in general).

 

[leatherback]

I think the fact that most pictures are not great reflect a desinterest.

On my side, I have everything needed to take great pictures. I just do not spend the time putting things up, especially when I just take pictures for my archive.

 

[Canada Bonsai]

Not the typical post here!

I do freelance photography work here and there (mainly products). It just occurred to me that I could combine my interest in bonsai (more generally, treee) and photography into something commercially viable. But first, I wanted to gauge general thoughts around this.

Of all the nurseries around, I’ve only really seen Bonsai Mirai really hone their photography craft. It seems like there’s a huge lack of photography talent in this business (please call me out if I’m underestimating us). I’ve also seen pretty high quality photos from Mach5. That’s all I can think of right now though.

I’m wondering if people would be willing to pay for professional photos in this field — be it bonsai/tree/plant nurseries, clubs hosting shows. Is there enough demand for this you think? It seems very commercially important nowadays, yet I come across so many excel-table catalog tree nurseries. Photos are important! On the other hand, in the age of iPhone cameras, maybe there isn’t enough commercial interest, and this isn’t worth pursuing. I’d really like to see more Bonsai Mirai level photos though (not just in bonsai but tree nurseries, gardens, etc. in general).

Well, photography has been integral to bonsai even before the internet and social media. This is certainly the case in Japan, but also in the West. Beginning in 1979 (its first issue!), International Bonsai had a dedicated series by Alan Nyiri on photography and bonsai. More recently, in 2007 Julian Adams published 3 articles on the topic in International Bonsai.

Let's put aside the philosophical questions about the role of the photographer and photography in bonsai, but there is certainly much to discuss there too.

Your question is more about how one can turn bonsai photography into a business. I would start by listing all of the areas in which photography has potential monetary value, like you've started to do in your post: events, personal gardens/trees, product photography, social media content, magazine/blog content, etc.

I have a small bonsai business, and I'd be happy to share my experiences in some of these areas (e.g. product photography), but don't know much about other areas (e.g. events.). Here are some initial thoughts:

1. There are great photographers in every city (regardless of whether you want artistic shots like Mirai or straightforward shots like Eisei-en, both of which require expertise), which means I will always use a relatively local photographer. Can you make a living off your local market? (However, see conclusion below).
   
   
2. Not only is bonsai seasonal, but the work I do on trees is often based on my availability and the daily life of the trees. For example, can you show up for 15-minutes per day for 21 sequential days (or even every second/third day) to photograph the individual trees as they peak in their fall color? (Of course, but what would that cost?) If I decide to do some technique or procedure I'd like photographed, can you show up today or tomorrow?
   
   
3. Despite being a small nursery, I still listed 1600 products in 2021, with 2-4 shots per product. I don't use generic photos; every tree is photographed and WYSIWYG (once the tree is sold, the photos are useless). The best price that I was quoted to photograph my products was $4 per product. When I'm selling a plant for $40-50, I can't afford to pay 10% per item for photography. This is why I use my iPhone. My pictures are terrible (https://www.canadabonsai.com/collections/japanese-cherries), and can certainly improve with a few lessons or even YouTube tutorials, I'm sure, but hiring a photographer will never be possible unless the cost drops below 2% per product.

Conclusion
As a professional, nursery or business, I think that having an in-house photographer (like Mirai, Eisei-en, @MACH5 @Walter Pall etc.) is crucial to putting out high-quality photos, as needed and on a consistent basis, for a relatively low cost. So when are people hiring external photographers? Maybe events, magazines, blogs, creating social media content to generate revenue from views/ads. Do you have a background in branding? One of my biggest start-up costs was my branding package, and it seems like a new bonsai business opens every day. But here too, I used a local expert that I could meet and consult with in person.

As a business, I have hired a photographer three times:

• Once to shoot a retiree's collection of 250 trees, which I was asked to sell. I hired a photographer because selling trees with an average price of $1000 merits good quality photos for a number of reasons. The cost of photography represented 0.5-2% of the retail price of the tree. (On which I was taking only 3% profit to help a retiree, long story LOL). I would have favoured in-house photography if it was within my skillset.
  
  
• Twice to shoot my garden and create some editorial images to use on my website. I do not have the equipment or skill to produce the quality images I wanted. But because I hired an external photographer, I cannot do this on a daily/weekly basis in the way that a business with an in-house photographer can. I might hire a photographer once per year at most.

Future occasions when I might hire a photographer:

• My Ume will begin flowering around January 10, and will continue for 6 weeks. Ume are a big part of my current and future business. I have 2 photographers on standby for this, either of whom should be able to swing by with 1-3 days notice, maybe 2-3 times during this period. The pictures will be great, but this frequency is far from ideal. I would have favoured in-house photography if it was within my skillset.
  
  
• I am in the process of planning my next nursery, and have factored photography into the start-up costs.

 

[Bonsai Noodles]

Well, photography has been integral to bonsai even before the internet and social media. This is certainly the case in Japan, but also in the West. Beginning in 1979 (its first issue!), International Bonsai had a dedicated series by Alan Nyiri on photography and bonsai. More recently, in 2007 Julian Adams published 3 articles on the topic in International Bonsai.

Let's put aside the philosophical questions about the role of the photographer and photography in bonsai, but there is certainly much to discuss there too.

Your question is more about how one can turn bonsai photography into a business. I would start by listing all of the areas in which photography has potential monetary value, like you've started to do in your post: events, personal gardens/trees, product photography, social media content, magazine/blog content, etc.

I have a small bonsai business, and I'd be happy to share my experiences in some of these areas (e.g. product photography), but don't know much about other areas (e.g. events.). Here are some initial thoughts:

1. There are great photographers in every city (regardless of whether you want artistic shots like Mirai or straightforward shots like Eisei-en, both of which require expertise), which means I will always use a relatively local photographer. Can you make a living off your local market? (However, see conclusion below).
   
   
2. Not only is bonsai seasonal, but the work I do on trees is often based on my availability and the daily life of the trees. For example, can you show up for 15-minutes per day for 21 sequential days (or even every second/third day) to photograph the individual trees as they peak in their fall color? (Of course, but what would that cost?) If I decide to do some technique or procedure I'd like photographed, can you show up today or tomorrow?
   
   
3. Despite being a small nursery, I still listed 1600 products in 2021, with 2-4 shots per product. I don't use generic photos; every tree is photographed and WYSIWYG (once the tree is sold, the photos are useless). The best price that I was quoted to photograph my products was $4 per product. When I'm selling a plant for $40-50, I can't afford to pay 10% per item for photography. This is why I use my iPhone. My pictures are terrible (https://www.canadabonsai.com/collections/japanese-cherries), and can certainly improve with a few lessons or even YouTube tutorials, I'm sure, but hiring a photographer will never be possible unless the cost drops below 2% per product.

Conclusion
As a professional, nursery or business, I think that having an in-house photographer (like Mirai, Eisei-en, @MACH5 @Walter Pall etc.) is crucial to putting out high-quality photos, as needed and on a consistent basis, for a relatively low cost. So when are people hiring external photographers? Maybe events, magazines, blogs, creating social media content to generate revenue from views/ads. Do you have a background in branding? One of my biggest start-up costs was my branding package, and it seems like a new bonsai business opens every day. But here too, I used a local expert that I could meet and consult with in person.

As a business, I have hired a photographer three times:

• Once to shoot a retiree's collection of 250 trees, which I was asked to sell. I hired a photographer because selling trees with an average price of $1000 merits good quality photos for a number of reasons. The cost of photography represented 0.5-2% of the retail price of the tree. (On which I was taking only 3% profit to help a retiree, long story LOL). I would have favoured in-house photography if it was within my skillset.
  
  
• Twice to shoot my garden and create some editorial images to use on my website. I do not have the equipment or skill to produce the quality images I wanted. But because I hired an external photographer, I cannot do this on a daily/weekly basis in the way that a business with an in-house photographer can. I might hire a photographer once per year at most.

Future occasions when I might hire a photographer:

• My Ume will begin flowering around January 10, and will continue for 6 weeks. Ume are a big part of my current and future business. I have 2 photographers on standby for this, either of whom should be able to swing by with 1-3 days notice, maybe 2-3 times during this period. The pictures will be great, but this frequency is far from ideal. I would have favoured in-house photography if it was within my skillset.
  
  
• I am in the process of planning my next nursery, and have factored photography into the start-up costs.

This is such an extensive and thoughtful post, thanks. I'll definitely consider all of this when thinking about making a business. Your observation about an in-house photography is really spot-on. I get the impression that Mirai has its own team of videographers/photographers, and that's why the quality they put out is consistently high quality. Also noticed Walter Pall has seen this thread, so shoutout to him too. I imagine he has a similar team working with him (if not himself).

I think what I can leverage is my experience in website making. I didn't do it for a tree nursery, but I helped start a salon's website/took pictures for them. Their revenue jumped more than 2x within a month due to their new online presence.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I think Walter makes his own pictures.
He has explained what kind of backdrops and light reflectors he uses and I've seen his photoshop/editing works on numerous occasions.

A good camera on a tripod can really help with making good pictures. I know a dude who's earning a living wage with product photography by using only the autofocus and standard settings on his camera. He told me the real trick is to take million pics and get a proper setting and good lights. Light and location makes all the difference, especially for phone and digital cameras.

See below what a 80 euro 2006 digital camera with 12 megapixels, can achieve with the right standard settings and sunlight.


In lower light, we see quality and general 'crispness' immediately drop.


Is bonsai a niche market that will fill your pockets?
I don't believe it is.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

If I were a professional photographer, I would get the list from ABS (American Bonsai Society) of all their member bonsai clubs. I would then keep an eye on the several hundred club calendars. Make certain when you suspect or know a club is planning a show, make your services as a photographer known to the club's show chairperson. Once in a while you will get lucky. Big regional shows like the MABA will often hire a professional photographer. FOr local shows only the larger clubs, like Chicago, might hire professional photographers. I know the Milwaukee Bonsai Soc. is hosting a regional MABA event to celebrate 50th anniversary of the Milwaukee club's founding, the MBS has hired a professional photographer (Sam O) for the event.

So make sure people know you are available. and keep an eye on club calendars. The ABS and MABA websites list several years in advance where shows will be hosted. This is the list you use to hunt down future jobs.

 

[Kodama]

Maybe you could offer trade? Nice tree in exchange for seasonal shots?

 

[Pitoon]

Not the typical post here!

I do freelance photography work here and there (mainly products). It just occurred to me that I could combine my interest in bonsai (more generally, treee) and photography into something commercially viable. But first, I wanted to gauge general thoughts around this.

Of all the nurseries around, I’ve only really seen Bonsai Mirai really hone their photography craft. It seems like there’s a huge lack of photography talent in this business (please call me out if I’m underestimating us). I’ve also seen pretty high quality photos from Mach5. That’s all I can think of right now though.

I’m wondering if people would be willing to pay for professional photos in this field — be it bonsai/tree/plant nurseries, clubs hosting shows. Is there enough demand for this you think? It seems very commercially important nowadays, yet I come across so many excel-table catalog tree nurseries. Photos are important! On the other hand, in the age of iPhone cameras, maybe there isn’t enough commercial interest, and this isn’t worth pursuing. I’d really like to see more Bonsai Mirai level photos though (not just in bonsai but tree nurseries, gardens, etc. in general).

How about showing us some of your photography? @Eric Schrader has a major west coast show coming up next year.

 

[ShadyStump]

I'm in general agreement with all of the above.
Possible to incorporate bonsai as a specialty in your repertoire, but not likely to be profitable on it's own.
Essentially, don't quit your day job.

Photographers are a dime a dozen. Good photographers are a buck a dozen.
Business sense would be your money maker, your photography skills or connections just your tools. @Canada Bonsai hit the nail on the head, though certainly not an exhaustive list of possibilities. Your local market would have to be your bread and butter, and only if you maintain ready availability and very cheap rates.
The rest would be hours a day tracking events around the nation. That's allot of work and may not be worthwhile to you.

HOWEVER, it's worthwhile to someone.
You can make your business as the premier plant/nursery/bonsai photog coordinator. Use your connections in both fields to become the go-to go-between, setting photographers in need up with clients in need. Along the way, you'll have opportunity to still do some of the shoots you love.

 

[Lorax7]

Something that bears mentioning is that, given the artistic nature of bonsai, there is inevitably overlap between bonsai artists and photographers. Maybe there aren’t that many professional photographers who also do bonsai, but I have to think there are many hobbyist photographers who also do bonsai. I’m one of them, although you wouldn’t really know it from my tree photos as I simply haven’t put in the effort to take tree photos of the quality that I could if I really wanted to and wanted to spend a little money to buy a proper backdrop. I think the reason why I haven’t put in that effort yet is simply because I don’t have my trees to a level of development that warrants treating them as subjects for art photography instead of simple documentary photography to keep track of progress and capture things like the exact positioning for a future repot where I intend to change the angle, etc. Basically, if I ever get to the point where I want to take high quality photos of my trees, instead of hiring a photographer, I would just use that as an excuse to buy a proper backdrop and lights.

 

[Bonsai Noodles]

How about showing us some of your photography? @Eric Schrader has a major west coast show coming up next year.

Sure (note these are not full res.)! Here are some highlights from a 1-day shoot for a nursery. I wanted to give back to this nursery, so I did them for free. It was all coordinated impromptu, and if I had all of my photo equipment, I could definitely do more of those standard "black background" shots. No examples of those yet (only people portraits), since I have not had the chance to shoot high quality trees in a studio setting (yet). I'm on the lookout for such opportunties.

As you can see, I already ran into some trouble with some of the deciduous trees' leaves falling off.

And also included is a close-up of a pine cone for fun

Thanks for the ref, by the way. Would be very exciting to work for a big show!

I think Walter makes his own pictures.
He has explained what kind of backdrops and light reflectors he uses and I've seen his photoshop/editing works on numerous occasions.

A good camera on a tripod can really help with making good pictures. I know a dude who's earning a living wage with product photography by using only the autofocus and standard settings on his camera. He told me the real trick is to take million pics and get a proper setting and good lights. Light and location makes all the difference, especially for phone and digital cameras.

See below what a 80 euro 2006 digital camera with 12 megapixels, can achieve with the right standard settings and sunlight.


In lower light, we see quality and general 'crispness' immediately drop.


Is bonsai a niche market that will fill your pockets?
I don't believe it is.

I think that's basically what you pay for when hiring a professional photographer: consistency, no matter the conditions. This seems to be the case across many fields. I won't claim to be a true professional photographer, but I'm at that stage where I don't need to 100% rely on good lighting — that is, I make my own lighting good. So yeah, in that weird limbo stage before I can start making real money hopefully! But as you and others have been saying, maybe bonsai isn't the best if we're talking about lucrative photography gigs. It might have to be more of a hobby for now.

 

[parhamr]

For a specific example, BSOP’s constitution and bylaws prohibit any remuneration of volunteer work and club photographer is an official committee. I know for certain that in the last decade the photographs of events and shows have been fully produced by volunteers.

The above advice to find show schedules, offer your services, and to tour seem the most promising. I do think bonsai folk (and clubs) can be quite cheap, however, and don’t quite seem to value the prevailing market fees and wages for professionals.

 

[Bonsai Noodles]

Maybe you could offer trade? Nice tree in exchange for seasonal shots?

Haha, interesting proposition. I might end up with more trees than I can care for however.

For a specific example, BSOP’s constitution and bylaws prohibit any remuneration of volunteer work and club photographer is an official committee. I know for certain that in the last decade the photographs of events and shows have been fully produced by volunteers.

The above advice to find show schedules, offer your services, and to tour seem the most promising. I do think bonsai folk (and clubs) can be quite cheap, however, and don’t quite seem to value the prevailing market fees and wages for professionals.

Interesting. Is Mirai and BSOP one and the same? I've watched many of the streams, and at this point, I assumed they were the same. On the bright side, I don't think I'll be in Oregon area in the near future (not that I don't think Mirai/BSOP aren't awesome, but from a business perspective, y'know).

 

[parhamr]

Haha, interesting proposition. I might end up with more trees than I can care for however.


Interesting. Is Mirai and BSOP one and the same? I've watched many of the streams, and at this point, I assumed they were the same. On the bright side, I don't think I'll be in Oregon area in the near future (not that I don't think Mirai/BSOP aren't awesome, but from a business perspective, y'know).

In short: no, entirely unrelated.

Mirai is a nursery business run by owner Ryan Neil. He aims to be the best in the world and to be at the forefront of instruction, craft, and design. He lives in Scappoose, Oregon and it was established around 2010.

He tends to have an office administrator, creative director, two or three photographers, and nursery hand on his staff. I’m maybe forgetting about a position or two.

BSOP is the Bonsai Society of Portland, which was founded around 1966 and is a non-profit. It has a five person, elected, all volunteer board. It’s “just” a club, but benefits greatly from access to and good relationships with most of the area professionals (who want to be connected, at least).

The relationship with Ryan is mutually beneficial but there’s no official connection. We had hired Ryan for a full year of instruction around 2017, greatly supported his Artisan’s Cup event, hire him for something at most of our big shows or events, and sponsor some of his livestreams. A fair number of our members are his students.

 

[Paradox]

I dont see this being a huge money maker for a photographer. You might get a job here or there, but I dont see many back yard hobbyists wanting or needing professional photos of their trees unless its someone like Adair with stellar trees.

Bill Valvanis has a photographer take pictures of all the trees in each National Show and makes a book out of them that he sells. The proceeds of that book go back into paying for the show.

I dont see many local clubs going to that length to document trees in their shows.
As it is they barely make enough money to pay for the space for the show.

With a little effort, it isnt hard to take nice pictures of your trees. You also dont need expensive equipment.
I am not a professional photographer but I have taken a few classes and taken lots of pictures. Ive even had a few published in local things.
Here is probably the best photo I've ever done of one of my trees. It was not taken with anything close to a professional set up but its a pretty decent picture.

 

[rockm]

At best professional bonsai photography is a side piece to "regular" photography. A case in point--Stephen Voss, a professional photographer for years here in D.C., began photographing bonsai at the National Bonsai and Penjing Museum as a hobby that got him away from his regular job.

Washington DC Photographer Stephen Voss

Washington DC Photographer Stephen Voss

www.stephenvoss.com

In Photos: How Washington changed in Biden's first 100 days

Our photographer captured the city during the pivotal transition from Trump to Biden.

www.politico.com

He loved photographing the bonsai so much he put together a book on it. He's the "go to" photog for the museum now. He was on this site, asking questions about bonsai a few years ago, if I remember...

Amazon.com: In Training, a book of bonsai photos: 9780692585160: Stephen Voss: Books

Amazon.com: In Training, a book of bonsai photos: 9780692585160: Stephen Voss: Books

www.amazon.com

In Training, bonsai — Washington DC Photographer Stephen Voss

www.stephenvoss.com

Photographing Bonsai with Stephen Voss: Searching For Order in Bonsai — National Bonsai Foundation

As a photographer who now makes a living snapping pictures of some of the world’s most influential figures , Stephen Voss didn’t always know that photography could be more than a hobby. Once a bonsai novice, he certainly didn’t think he would publish a photography book of bonsai

www.bonsai-nbf.org

So basically, he made bonsai contacts while he continued to follow his interest in bonsai overall.

 

[just.wing.it]

At best professional bonsai photography is a side piece to "regular" photography. A case in point--Stephen Voss, a professional photographer for years here in D.C., began photographing bonsai at the National Bonsai and Penjing Museum as a hobby that got him away from his regular job.

Washington DC Photographer Stephen Voss

Washington DC Photographer Stephen Voss

www.stephenvoss.com

In Photos: How Washington changed in Biden's first 100 days

Our photographer captured the city during the pivotal transition from Trump to Biden.

www.politico.com

He loved photographing the bonsai so much he put together a book on it. He's the "go to" photog for the museum now. He was on this site, asking questions about bonsai a few years ago, if I remember...

Amazon.com: In Training, a book of bonsai photos: 9780692585160: Stephen Voss: Books

Amazon.com: In Training, a book of bonsai photos: 9780692585160: Stephen Voss: Books

www.amazon.com

In Training, bonsai — Washington DC Photographer Stephen Voss

www.stephenvoss.com

Photographing Bonsai with Stephen Voss: Searching For Order in Bonsai — National Bonsai Foundation

As a photographer who now makes a living snapping pictures of some of the world’s most influential figures , Stephen Voss didn’t always know that photography could be more than a hobby. Once a bonsai novice, he certainly didn’t think he would publish a photography book of bonsai

www.bonsai-nbf.org

So basically, he made bonsai contacts while he continued to follow his interest in bonsai overall.

I received a copy of In Training as a gift a couple years back, its quite nice.

 

[River's Edge]

I would not plan on a lucrative career taking pictures of Bonsai. Almost every club I have been part of or Show I have attended has a very qualified Photographer that meets their needs for honorarium level costs or free of charge. When a professional is hired, mostly locals are used for obvious reasons. Limited travel and accommodation costs.