Would a Chinese Elm work indoors?

[GarlR]

I am debating buying one of the following below. I have concerns, though. They will be extensively grown indoors. I know that they are deciduous, so is it necessary for them to go 'dormant,' and lose their leaves? How will go growing them indoors affect them? I have read that they are indoor trees, while some say they are outdoor only, then even some say they are both.

I have a T5 HO fixture, so they will be under that for at least 1.5 years. I've seen pictures of when they change color, and they are super pretty. (I mean that in the most manliest of ways lol)

I should be fine with them, right?

*Edit* Plus, when I can move it outside, it will do well in my heat zone 8. (According to http://www.missouribotanicalgarden....r/plant-details/kc/c158/ulmus-parvifolia.aspx)

 

[Redwood Ryan]

I wouldn't grow them indoors. You being a beginner and them not being typical indoor trees is a bad combination. I'd say more experienced (no offense) indoor growers can grow them indoors, but that's only because they can control humidity and give the tree plenty of light. However, growing them indoors means they won't get a winter break, so they will eventually tire and literally grow themselves to death. Long story short, it's too much effort for little reward.

 

[Brian Underwood]

"No" is the short answer you will receive from anyone experienced in caring for bonsai. Sadly, it usually takes the experience of killing a few trees to realize this, and often those people do not return to the art. Read, watch, learn, and strive for quality over quantity and you may end up being in it for life. Good luck.

 

[GarlR]

Yeah, I really didn't think about it. I have a 1 bulb t5. The way they are planted, even if I wanted to attempt to grow it, probably wouldn't be enough due to the way they are spaced. I doubt all 5 would get the light. Since it looks like there are 3 in back, and 2 in the front.

It makes me sad, they are so awesome looking, and under $90.

Why oh why can't I have access to outdoors!!!

 

[Redwood Ryan]

Yeah, I really didn't think about it. I have a 1 bulb t5. The way they are planted, even if I wanted to attempt to grow it, probably wouldn't be enough due to the way they are spaced. I doubt all 5 would get the light. Since it looks like there are 3 in back, and 2 in the front.

It makes me sad, they are so awesome looking, and under $90.

Why oh why can't I have access to outdoors!!!

In my opinion, they're pretty ugly and lack any attractive characteristics

 

[jkd2572]

You think it looks neat now, but you will keep finding better trees with your growing learning experience. Buy it. In two years you will be thinking about ways to kill it just so you can make room on your benches for what you have learned are better material. As of the point of keeping it inside it will grow weaker every year until it dies. Rethink your plan and soak up as much knowledge as possible. Through such avenues as this site, books, local clubs, you tube, ECt. It took me two years before I gave myself the challenge of spending more time learning than more time spent figuring out what and how to buy. The learning up front actually saves a lot of time once you have a collection to take care of. With that being said if you have the money to spend learn and buy at the same time. Only be prepared for losses along the way. Which is fine if you have the extra cash. It only saddens me when someone takes a $1000 piece of fine prebonsai and kills it due to ignorance. Buy something south of $100 and see what happens. Only your own environment will determine the outcome.

 

[coh]

GarlR,

Have you come across this article?

Growing Bonsai Indoors Under Fluorescent Light, by Jack Wikle: http://www.fukubonsai.com/2b2a2a.html

Chris

 

[GarlR]

In my opinion, they're pretty ugly and lack any attractive characteristics

I really think it depends on the person, and how they form it.

Edit: Chris, yeah not reading that. lol He needs to learn how to format it better.

Also I went to Walmart to see what kind of plants they had. They even had a "bonsai." Oh the horror! The horror!!!

BTW I have the following books I am reading: (not all I have received yet)

The Art of Indoor Bonsai: Cultivating Tropical, Sub-Tropical and Tender Bonsai
The Living Art of Bonsai: Principles & Techniques of Cultivation & Propagation
Growing Bonsai Indoors (BBG Guides for a Greener Planet)
Bonsai (101 Essential Tips)
Indoor Bonsai: Plants and Gardens (Brooklyn Botanic Garden Record)
Ficus : The Exotic Bonsai
Bonsai Survival Manual: Tree-by-Tree Guide to Buying, Maintaining, and Problem Solving

 

[Poink88]

In my opinion, they're pretty ugly and lack any attractive characteristics

I agree. I wont buy than even for $5. :d

 

[coh]

Edit: Chris, yeah not reading that. lol He needs to learn how to format it better.

Jack Wikle (author of the linked article) has been growing bonsai indoors, under lights, for many years...including species that many people say cannot survive that way (like junipers, cotoneasters, etc). Seems pretty short-sighted to dismiss his article because of formatting, but to each his own.

Chris

 

[milehigh_7]

I really think it depends on the person, and how they form it.

Edit: Chris, yeah not reading that. lol He needs to learn how to format it better.

Wow... Done with this guy...

 

[GarlR]

Wow... Done with this guy...

I'm dyslexic, and it makes it difficult to read poorly formatted things, especially if it is in long rows.

Way to go to make feel like like crap due to my learning disability.

 

[Paradox]

Welcome to the forum.

I'm sorry to hear about your dyslexia. It can make reading very difficult.
Perhaps someone you know that understands your disability better can copy the text from that link into Word and reformat it so that you can read it?

I have to agree that those trees are pretty ugly and not worth the $90 asking price.
For that amount of money you can do much better. Id suggest trying a ficus as they are very easily grown indoors, are forgiving of beginners mistakes and are beautiful trees. I have one on my desk at work next to a window and its very happy.

 

[jk_lewis]

I'm dyslexic, and it makes it difficult to read poorly formatted things, especially if it is in long rows.

Way to go to make feel like like crap due to my learning disability.

Of course no one knew that before you dissed the format of the article. So we weren't really picking on your disability.

I have to join the other in saying that that group of trees is pretyty wierd looking. Certainly not worth $90.

As you have been advised elsewhere, I believe, go to HD (or even WalMart) and buy a potted Ficus houseplant and build your own bonsai. Just stay away from those %$#$ ugly, so-called "ginsing Ficus."

 

[GarlR]

Of course no one knew that before you dissed the format of the article. So we weren't really picking on your disability.

I have to join the other in saying that that group of trees is pretyty wierd looking. Certainly not worth $90.

As you have been advised elsewhere, I believe, go to HD (or even WalMart) and buy a potted Ficus houseplant and build your own bonsai. Just stay away from those %$#$ ugly, so-called "ginsing Ficus."

I am aware of that, but I shouldn't have to have a dyslexia disclaimer on everything I wrote or post.

Also, I bought a nice looking $35 shohin ficus that I like the way it looks. It should be shipping next Monday. (I also looked at Walmart, and they had 1 bonsai. OMG It was a massacre to such a plant. It didn't even label what kind of plant it was. The other plants were crappy to even try to start going into a bonsai. Most of them were dead or dying)

I really don't like ginsing ficus, either.

I also bought a ficus phillipinensis for $50. I actually spent more than I wanted to on it. I bought it on ebay, and the bid was at $19, and instead of raising my max bid, I put in an actual bid for $50. I guess the reserve was at $49, so it went to $49. I'm not totally sure how Ebay bidding works on reserves. When I used to do it, you put in a bid, and it would automatically autobid for you, but stay at the lowest bid. I guess they changed it. Anyway, I'm fine paying $50 for it.

It is a pretty neat looking tree. It is 14 inches tall. At the base, they cut off one of the branches, and made a uro in it (maybe a second one...its too hard to tell from the pic.) It still has a lot to go, but that is a lot of the fun in it. It doesn't have a lot of leaves, but that is okay. It is pre-wired, but I may end up changing the style, or a reduction...but apparently this kind of tree doesn't love reductions...so we'll have to see about that.

I don't know if the 14 inch ficus was a air layer. It doesn't look like it was grafted. It has a pretty good sized trunk with 3 large negari.

Overall, I think these 3 plants will give me enough trees to look at, play around with, and hopefully won't die.

I may give my 5 inch mame fukien tea to my dad. It is pretty decent (only $27), but it has a few issues. I will have to paste a picture. Basically it has a huge trunk, so it may of been air layered. However, they cut it off horizonitally to make the branch next to it the new apex. However, on both of the 2 main branches, they split directly at the trunk of the tree into at least 4-5 branches. So it might not be able to style it the way I want it to be styled. (Again I'm a noob) I'll post more pictures of it later too when I have time, and get off of work.

Also, I am hoping it doesn't have any pests. I removed a small cottonball looking thing between the start of 2 branches. I'm hoping it is not what I think it is. Also it seems like something may have munched a tiny part of the mid leaf on a few leaves. (not that many)

It is going to be at least a week before I get the 14 inch ficus, and 10 days before the shohin ficus, so I may need to quarintine the old plant. I will just have to watch it to see if anything shows up, and do some of the tests that are in my ficus book by Jerry.

*Edit* I do not know the ages of the trees. I need to ask them.

 

[milehigh_7]

I'm dyslexic, and it makes it difficult to read poorly formatted things, especially if it is in long rows.

Way to go to make feel like like crap due to my learning disability.

You know what? You're right I apologize. It is not fair of me to be done with someone just because they post something rude and disrespectful of someone who generously shares their years of experience. I have done it myself and have been fortunate enough to receive forgiveness from many of the people I have been rude to.

Your learning disability did not force you to be rude however. Using it as something to excuse your poor manners unfortunately is not real impressive.

 

[GarlR]

You know what? You're right I apologize. It is not fair of me to be done with someone just because they post something rude and disrespectful of someone who generously shares their years of experience. I have done it myself and have been fortunate enough to receive forgiveness from many of the people I have been rude to.

Your learning disability did not force you to be rude however. Using it as something to excuse your poor manners unfortunately is not real impressive.

Wow. I'm not going to even respond. This is just silly.

 

[Paradox]

Mile, your post is a bit harsh. Seriously man, lighten up.

His post really wasnt rude.
All he said was he didnt read it because it wasnt formatted correctly for him to be able to.
It doesnt matter why and to be honest I cant blame him for getting a little defensive because its none of our buisness.

 

[C.A. Young]

The facts are these:

Chinese elms (ulmus parvifolia) are one of the few species that break the rules of indoors/outdoors. The thing is that their natural habitat ranges from temperate to sub-tropical. Those that occur in temperate regions lose their leaves every fall, go dormant, and resume growth in the spring. Those from the sub-tropics, remain evergreen. While I don't grow them myself, two of my closest bonsai friends both keep large specimens (that they've had for years) indoors year round. What they tell me is that their indoor trees like a short (1-2months) period of cooler (50 - 55) temperatures. This isn't cold enough to induce shedding leaves, but the tree goes into a rest period.

As to all the disparaging comments about how ugly the tree your interested in is, forget it. I still look around my collection and think to myself "what were you thinking when you bought that ugly stunted wreck". Usually what happens is that I end up getting fed up, and then sketch and carry out a radical restyle. Sometimes this means I take a formal upright, hack it off and plant it on a rock, sometimes I split up a group, and sometimes I end up killing the tree. In every case though, I learn a great deal, and sometimes the result is pleasantly surprising.

The long and the short of it is this: If you like the elm group, and really want to keep it inside, do it! what's the worst that could happen?...You kill a tree and learn a lot?

P.S. T5 HO fluorescents are great for trees 12" and under. However, one is not sufficient, pick up three or four more, and you won't go wrong.

 

[rockm]

"Chinese elms (ulmus parvifolia) are one of the few species that break the rules of indoors/outdoors."

It doesn't break any "rules" about indoor care. It simply tolerates it better than many other species--and in most cases only for a relatively short time (and short includes a few years compared to decades or even centuries outdoors). ANY species can be kept indoors given the right conditions (and providing the right conditions is the long war of indoor bonsai that is mostly futile--short of making your basement into a pricey tropical hothouse) If you want to eliminate the stress of indoor care and the resulting mostly disappointing results, this species should remain outdoors.

The long and short of is mostly if you want a grouping that doesn't stagger by every year and is a robust, healthy and faster developing (and alive) tree, then keep it outdoors