Wiring over pine needles

[Dutch bonsai chef]

This might be discussed elsewhere but I couldn’t find the answers I was looking for.

When doing an initial/first styling on pines (mugo in this case), is it better to wire over the old needles or remove them. In this case I kept them and wired over them because I already removed a lot of branches/foliage mass. I was thinking it would be better to keep as much foliage as possible so I just wired over them.

Now a moment of clarity hit me and I remember Ryan Neill saying it is better to never wire over needles because the stress the tree experiences when it’s needles are being crushed is more than the stress it experiences by just removing the needles. So would it have been better removing the needles too, even though I removed a lot of foliage? Or better to wire over them to keep as much needles as possible?

 

[leatherback]

I prefer to wire between the needles.
There really is no reason to remove or wire over needles., except for the odd one here or there.

Honestly.. The wiring you have here is just showing you not taking the care to minimize damage.

 

[Dutch bonsai chef]

I prefer to wire between the needles.
There really is no reason to remove or wire over needles., except for the odd one here or there.

Honestly.. The wiring you have here is just showing you not taking the care to minimize damage.

So it would’ve been better to kind of lift the needles and then trying to place it in between?

For the not taking care part; did I do something else wrong or just because I wired over the needles without thinking?

Thanks for your answer btw, don’t mean to be a fanboy but your videos are one of the main reasons I started bonsai

 

[leatherback]

So it would’ve been better to kind of lift the needles and then trying to place it in between?

Exactly. but.. not really lifting right, just weave between them. You have now used alu wire, which means it is a bit big. But still, you should be able to gently lay the wire between the needles.

For the not taking care part; did I do something else wrong or just because I wired over the needles without thinking?

Nah, I would say it is pretty good for a first styling

Thanks for your answer btw, don’t mean to be a fanboy but your videos are one of the main reasons I started bonsai

Ohw.. So sorry to have put you up to this! I do not take responsibility for where this leads .
Thx!

 

[Orion_metalhead]

I find it very easy when wiring pines to have a set of tweezers handy, I use them to move needles out from beneath the wire as I wrap the wire.

It also is common to remove the bottom needles from the branch so doing this will also help with wiring.

 

[Dutch bonsai chef]

Exactly. but.. not really lifting right, just weave between them. You have now used alu wire, which means it is a bit big. But still, you should be able to gently lay the wire between the needles.

oke thanks, will try my best with the next one

Nah, I would say it is pretty good for a first styling

Thank you!

Ohw.. So sorry to have put you up to this! I do not take responsibility for where this leads .
Thx!

No need to be sorry, enjoying it way to much. My wife is not so happy with all the shrubs everywhere in the garden but I just tell her it’s Jelle’s fault. He made me do this!

 

[Dutch bonsai chef]

I find it very easy when wiring pines to have a set of tweezers handy, I use them to move needles out from beneath the wire as I wrap the wire.

This is actually a really smart idea, will do this the next time.

It also is common to remove the bottom needles from the branch so doing this will also help with wiring.

Ah yeah, removing just the bottom needles would hurt the tree as much I guess. They don’t get much sunlight anyway.

 

[Paradox]

Ah yeah, removing just the bottom needles would hurt the tree as much I guess. They don’t get much sunlight ananyway.

Pines tend to form buds where there are needles. We don't really want needles on the bottom of branches so we remove those. Also it helps to allow more sunlight into the tree to try and induce buds in the interior of the tree

 

[Paradox]

This is actually a really smart idea, will do this the next time.

Should have added to my last post that wiring between the needles as others have said is how we handle pines.

It gets tedious for sure so if you feel yourself getting tired and frustrated with the wiring process, take a break and finish it another time. Better that then breaking a branch or something because you're getting tired

 

[MaciekA]

You can get fast at this over time. It’s a partially economy of motion thing (practice slow but precise at first, then get faster over time), it’s partially a right tool for the job thing (I will use pliers to very precisely and steadily grip the already-wrapped wire in place while with the other hand I’m laying down wire and moving needles out of the way), and a deep experience with pines thing (knowing which needles you can just go ahead and pluck to make room for wire).

Eventually deeper into pine refinement this is just a non-thing because you’re always plucking needles to the point where you don’t really need to dodge them with the wire. It’s with earlier coarser pines and especially year 1-5 trunkline wiring where this really comes up.