Windswept five needle pine

[Bonsai Nut]

Another tree for sale at Bonsai Hokaen. Apparently this was a 3 trunk design and they eliminated one of the trunks. It has been in training for over 40 years (currently selling for about $250). I like windswept / slant designs, especially ones that are a little softer.

 

[zelk]

wow good tree for the price especialy if it was styled for 40 years. very nice

 

[Chris Johnston]

I would gladly pay $250 for a tree of this quality. Now I need a shade house to keep it during hot Kansas summers!

 

[Anonymous User]

I think I would call this a Literarti instead of a windswept. A dual trunk Literati, now these's something different.


Will

 

[Tachigi]

I would classify this as a slant. The tree shows no characteristics of a windswept outside of the fact that both trunks are going in the same direction. I'm not a 100% convinced that I would call this a literati either Will. Maybe someday down the road. In the present image outside of trunk diameter I don't see enough in the upper part of the tree to make me go ..... Oh yeah I see it. I think it needs to be called what it is ... a tree in a conceptual stage

 

[Chris Johnston]

Yeah, it's definitely twin-trunk slanted. You could go literati by losing one of the trunks but I think that would do violence to a beautiful tree. all this one needs is some wiring.

 

[Anonymous User]

I'd still have to go with Literati or Bungin style here, as the foliage doesn't say "slanting" and the trunks are not quite angled enough.

The branches, sparce foliage, trunk movement, and the pot itself all scream Literati at me.

http://www.artofbonsai.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=289


Will

 

[Graydon]

I like this tree. I so much like the twin trunk.

I agree with Will. It is bungin to me. The kicker is the lack of lower branching on either of the trunks.

Slanted trunk (shakan) as in Bonsai Techniques 1 by Naka (pp. 131 - 132) "can be classified in to three types depending on the degree of the slant. The tree is kept in balance by tilting the apex towards the opposite side of the trunk, and arranging the first branch in many different ways to balance it". To me it does not fall under any of the three. Take a moment and pull your copy. The illustrations are so simple and perfect.

It's clearly not windswept. I can't see the effects of any wind on that tree except for a peaceful mountain breeze in the summer.

 

[Tachigi]

Graydon: To me it does not fall under any of the three

Tachigi: a tree in a conceptual stage

Were in agreement

This reminds me off a story about Colin Lewis. We were milling about his garden and saw a beautiful spruce. I proclaimed " Nice windswept Spruce Colin" another standing close by proclaimed "That is not windswept its a bunjin" and yet a third proclaimed "its a slant". Colin smiled and said: Your all wrong its a Colin Lewis Style! So I now try and resist categorizing trees, ya just can't win.

 

[Anonymous User]

So I now try and resist categorizing trees, ya just can't win.

Now that I agree with!



Will

 

[Chris Johnston]

I like this tree. I so much like the twin trunk.

I agree with Will. It is bungin to me. The kicker is the lack of lower branching on either of the trunks.

Slanted trunk (shakan) as in Bonsai Techniques 1 by Naka (pp. 131 - 132) "can be classified in to three types depending on the degree of the slant. The tree is kept in balance by tilting the apex towards the opposite side of the trunk, and arranging the first branch in many different ways to balance it". To me it does not fall under any of the three. Take a moment and pull your copy. The illustrations are so simple and perfect.

It's clearly not windswept. I can't see the effects of any wind on that tree except for a peaceful mountain breeze in the summer.

I agree that it's not windswept. Whether it will be bunjin or not depends on the styling it gets when someone buys it. I know Naka-san is a revered institution, but that definition of slant is just plain wrong. A balancing branch moving away from the slant of the tree just doesn't make sense. The tree is not kept in balance by any branch. It is given the sense of precipitousness by its imbalance. A study of great trees from Japan and Europe (and here in America more so every day) will put the lie to many of the old-school "rules."

 

[Anonymous User]

I believe the "balance" in balancing branch refers to "visual" balance, in that aspect, it makes a lot of sense.


Will

 

[Chris Johnston]

I understood perfectly the meaning of "balance" in the context used.

 

[Anonymous User]

Slanting bonsai are also usually place far off center in a pot.



Will

 

[Chris Johnston]

Thanks for the lesson. As to what this tree is right now, it is a tree that needs a complete restyle. Classify it any way you want. This is the wrong thing to argue about. At this time it's not a windswept. It could be bunjin, it could be slant. How would you go about styling it? What would be your first move?

 

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for the lesson.

You're welcome?

As to what this tree is right now, it is a tree that needs a complete restyle. How would you go about styling it? What would be your first move?

As to a complete restyle, that is debatable, I think a few minor changes would bring out a very nice bonsai indeed, but I wouldn't want to give "lessons" here.

However, to answer your challenge, my first move (if this were mine) would be to leave it alone for a year, let it acclimatize itself to my backyard, maybe do a few virtuals with different options and different styles of pots.

What would your first move be?


Will

 

[Graydon]

What would your first move be?


Will

If it could survive in Florida (it wouldn't) I wouldn't do much. Contemplate tightening up the branching a bit with wiring and slip in to a slightly deeper pot

I think what I like about this tree is that it reminds me of many of our local pines (pinus clausa). Lone pines in the forest that are left freestanding after clear-cutting. Trees grow like this in Florida everywhere I look. Reaching out from the edge of a forest in to a clearing - reaching and leaning for the sun as to outgrow the competition. They do that but become a little tall and gangly and lean as the winds push on them all summer.

If a tree could look like a tree in nature (my local nature) this one does. Do they all have to look like "bonsai"?

 

[Anonymous User]

I think what I like about this tree is that it reminds me of many of our local pines (pinus clausa). Lone pines in the forest that are left freestanding after clear-cutting. Trees grow like this in Florida everywhere I look. Reaching out from the edge of a forest in to a clearing - reaching and leaning for the sun as to outgrow the competition. They do that but become a little tall and gangly and lean as the winds push on them all summer.

It has been said that the Literati that were inspiration for the early artists in China actually became such because of the fuel shortage, the locals would strip the trees bare of branches as high as they could reach. Imagine that. Scots Pines assume this form in many parts of the world, as do some trees by the sea shores.

Interesting that although the cascade was represented more in these old Literati paintings than what we call Literati, and yet the cascade is never referenced, well not much anyhow.

If a tree could look like a tree in nature (my local nature) this one does. Do they all have to look like "bonsai"?

Well, Naka did say to make your bonsai look like trees.


Will

 

[Chris Johnston]

As to a complete restyle, that is debatable, I think a few minor changes would bring out a very nice bonsai indeed, but I wouldn't want to give "lessons" here.

However, to answer your challenge, my first move (if this were mine) would be to leave it alone for a year, let it acclimatize itself to my backyard, maybe do a few virtuals with different options and different styles of pots.

What would your first move be?


Will

Forget it. I am not going to play your semantic games here. You know what I was asking. What would be your first move with this tree (after watching and waiting and playing with virtuals)? What would you actually DO with the tree when you began to work on it?

 

[Anonymous User]

Forget it. I am not going to play your semantic games here while we watch this forum go to three posts a week, much like AoB and KoB.

I'm not sure what got your panties in a bunch here, I answered your questions as asked, politely and with respect.

As to the implied insult to the two forums I am involved with..

A) AoB is doing just fine, it was decidedly designed to not attract dozens of posts each day. It is more like a glossy coffee table book, where else can you go and find so many galleries and interviews by some of the best bonsai artists in the world? Where else can you find so much content on the artistic aspects of bonsai in one place? Within the last year it has had two record setting contests and with the World View Gallery for 2006 coming up, an interview with Kimura coming soon, and the interview with Vaughn as well as the recent article "The Problem with American Bonsai" by Vance Wood which has reached over five discussion pages to date by some of the biggest names in the business....I don't think you need to worry about its success at all.

B) KoB was also decidedly designed not to attract dozens of posts per day, instead its focus is on quality articles, galleries of shows and events, progression galleries, as well as a three dimensional gallery. It also includes in each and every section links to informative articles elsewhere on the web. KoB is a knowledge base first and a discussion forum second. It has also attracted some of the more experienced in the business, in this aspect and many others, it is also a success, not bad for a new forum at all.

And as to this forum, it will do well as long as politics are kept out of it, your post above for example, served no purpose whatsoever except to disrupt a conversation many of us were enjoying. I think your prediction is wrong and this forum will indeed prosper.


Will Heath