Will it form buds this season if I cut back now?

[Dav4]

OK, so I have a relatively young and still vigorously growing Japanese white pine. I’ve been working on building the branching and ramification over the last few years and pinching extending candles, and cutting back judiciously over the last two summers. Despite this, this pine continues to act like it’s, just hitting puberty . Anyway, despite what I thought was a fairly aggressive pinching campaign this spring, many of the candles are longer than I want at this point. The needles are just hardened off, and there are newly formed buds on the tips. My question is… If I were to cut these new candles back today, will there be bud formation before the end of this summer, or am I risking setting the tree back significantly? I can always hope for back budding on these vigorous branches, but I’d rather not have to count on it. Let me know what you think.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I'm not familiar with white pine. But all my other single flush pines produce buds in fall or winter after a summer cut back.
So I'd say: no, not this summer. But they might in fall!

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

The more conservative approach would be to cut new shoots back to only a few bundles of needles and try for adventitious buds and/or terminal buds at the cuts and at the base of this year’s growth. The risk is ending up with some blind shoots, which form no buds and will weaken and fade next year. Likely you’ll get a few of those, but as vigorous as this tree appears to be, I’d bet you get a good crop of buds.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I agree with Brian, in the sense that I read "cutting back candles" as in: cutting back to a couple needles or half the shoot.
Not decandling entirely.

 

[Paradox]

What Brian said.
Cut this year's shoots back leaving a few bundles of this year's needles and hope the tree responds accordingly. Keep feeding it well.

 

[Dav4]

The more conservative approach would be to cut new shoots back to only a few bundles of needles and try for adventitious buds and/or terminal buds at the cuts and at the base of this year’s growth. The risk is ending up with some blind shoots, which form no buds and will weaken and fade next year. Likely you’ll get a few of those, but as vigorous as this tree appears to be, I’d bet you get a good crop of buds.

Yeah, my plan was not to de-candle but to shorten the uber long candles as well as cutting back to interior branching, and my concern was obviously losing the shortened candles due to lack of bud formation. My shortened growing season here has me questioning things I normally wouldn't. Anyway, it's gonna get a haircut today.

 

[Paradox]

Yeah, my plan was not to de-candle but to shorten the uber long candles as well as cutting back to interior branching, and my concern was obviously losing the shortened candles due to lack of bud formation. My shortened growing season here has me questioning things I normally wouldn't. Anyway, it's gonna get a haircut today.

I think down here, I'd normally do this towards the middle to the end of August so your timing might be fine for you

 

[Dav4]

I think down here, I'd normally do this towards the middle to the end of August so your timing might be fine for you

I'm hoping to see buds forming on the shortened candles before Labor day... stay tuned!

 

[River's Edge]

OK, so I have a relatively young and still vigorously growing Japanese white pine. I’ve been working on building the branching and ramification over the last few years and pinching extending candles, and cutting back judiciously over the last two summers. Despite this, this pine continues to act like it’s, just hitting puberty . Anyway, despite what I thought was a fairly aggressive pinching campaign this spring, many of the candles are longer than I want at this point. The needles are just hardened off, and there are newly formed buds on the tips. My question is… If I were to cut these new candles back today, will there be bud formation before the end of this summer, or am I risking setting the tree back significantly? I can always hope for back budding on these vigorous branches, but I’d rather not have to count on it. Let me know what you think.
View attachment 497514

Short Answer. The trees age and condition makes it a good level of risk. I would not expect new buds this summer, but would expect a strong response next year. If on the off chance it sets some new buds this late summer, I would give it a little extra winter protection.
Nice progress!

 

[Dav4]

Short Answer. The trees age and condition makes it a good level of risk. I would not expect new buds this summer, but would expect a strong response next year. If on the off chance it sets some new buds this late summer, I would give it a little extra winter protection.
Nice progress!

I'm not wanting anymore foliage pushing this year, though this one has had 2 flushes of growth during two separate growing seasons down in GA- unpruned and vigorously growing spring candles pushed a second flush early summer. I'm just wanting to have tighter growth pushing from the shortened candles next spring.

 

[River's Edge]

I'm not wanting anymore foliage pushing this year, though this one has had 2 flushes of growth during two separate growing seasons down in GA- unpruned and vigorously growing spring candles pushed a second flush early summer. I'm just wanting to have tighter growth pushing from the shortened candles next spring.

Not used to double flush on JWP. Are you maintaining heavy fertilization throughout the growing season? Or have you switched to a more refinement stage of fertilizer application ?

 

[Dav4]

Not used to double flush on JWP. Are you maintaining heavy fertilization throughout the growing season? Or have you switched to a more refinement stage of fertilizer application ?

After the first styling from rough stock... probably 4 years ago... I fed heavy from spring through fall. After the tree was moved from a grow bag to the current pot with Boon's mix, I started feeding after the first flush had hardened off- 3-4 teabags full of hollytone placed on the soil along with weekly fish emulsion. Up until last week- July 4th to be exact, this one hadn't had any fertilizer since late October.

 

[River's Edge]

After the first styling from rough stock... probably 4 years ago... I fed heavy from spring through fall. After the tree was moved from a grow bag to the current pot with Boon's mix, I started feeding after the first flush had hardened off- 3-4 teabags full of hollytone placed on the soil along with weekly fish emulsion. Up until last week- July 4th to be exact, this one hadn't had any fertilizer since late October.

So just switching routines this growing season, perhaps residual nutrients in the media is still a factor. Along with stored energy within the plant. The tighter growth will come naturally as density increases and the energy is balanced over the increasing number of shoots. Changes quickly once the refinement process progresses. Expect you will see a major change over the next couple of years with combined pruning , candle cutting, needle balancing and dialled back fertilization routine.
Lots of potential there, I like the material you are working with.

 

[Dav4]

The deed's done... still extra bushy but hopefully some wire this fall will make it look a bit more decent.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Looking good, it’s going to be fine.

 

[Japonicus]

I started feeding after the first flush had hardened off- 3-4 teabags full of hollytone placed on the soil along with weekly fish emulsion. Up until last week- July 4th to be exact

Hi Dave. That's a very nice trunk, and loads of foliage.
I'm a little confused on the timeline here.
I thought the needles weren't hardened off until the sheaths drop, which is closer to Fall.
When is it that your 1st flush hardened off?

Frank's right about seeing a major change over the next couple of years just changing up
a couple of things. I started doing a couple of things differently with my JWP
and the candle necks got super long as a response and it has not produced those pretty purple pollen cones since.

@vancehanna decandles his EWP before they open all the way.
See post 17

 

[Dav4]

Hi Dave. That's a very nice trunk, and loads of foliage.
I'm a little confused on the timeline here.
I thought the needles weren't hardened off until the sheaths drop, which is closer to Fall.
When is it that your 1st flush hardened off?

Frank's right about seeing a major change over the next couple of years just changing up
a couple of things. I started doing a couple of things differently with my JWP
and the candle necks got super long as a response and it has not produced those pretty purple pollen cones since.

@vancehanna decandles his EWP before they open all the way.
See post 17

I'm not sure about sheaths falling off but maybe my terminology is incorrect. My idea of "hardened off" is when the new needles are no longer extending and are firming up and no longer soft. Full disclosure- the new needles on this one are still softer then last year's.

 

[namnhi]

The deed's done... still extra bushy but hopefully some wire this fall will make it look a bit more decent.

View attachment 497782View attachment 497783

Haha... I thinking to myself that you going to do it anyway regardless of what people say. Still plenty of needles to make food so I don't see how the tree will not doing well.

 

[Paradox]

@Dav4

Here is an example of what you might see with this pine.
This is my JWP that I bought as nursery stock.

2017, pretty leggy, long needles


2020, ramification and pads developed, shorter needles and filling out nicely.
Not bad for only 3 years

 

[GGB]

I have done this at exactly this time of the year BUT with an eastern white pine planted on the ground. It responded very well. But it was a different species and it had all the vigor of being in the ground. Good luck, I think it’ll pay off