Whitebark Pine yamadori

[Shogun610]

Buddy, Washington State PROHIBITS the collection of ALL Whitebark Pines in the state. PLEASE review all NF rules and guidelines BEFORE you collect! PLEASE REFRAIN from driving up to our state to ILLEGALLY collect and complicate future opportunities we may have to collect LEGAL trees in our backyard.

And why the hell are you using fungicides and pesticides on a recently collected tree?? It will do no good! Clearly you have lots to learn and I recommend you start learning before you continue TAKING trees from the native environment that you will inevitably KILL because you have no clue what you're doing.

RESPECT OUR FORESTS!!!

 

[August44]

Whitebark Pine is a THREATENED Species, please do not continue to collect it. And, PLEASE have RESPECT for the collection rules mandated on Public Lands by the National Forest Service.

Mr Bonsai_in_the_PNW, the man with two messages on this forum, you're more than a little bit harsh....ur just about rude IMO. You are making assumptions about the OP that are false. He didn't say he collected it in Washington. Maybe he collected it in Oregon. I collect them in Oregon where it is legal. Go yell at your dog!

 

[mwar15]

Oh and here's the Oregon State law that prohibits the collection of Candidate Species for the Endangered list:

Oregon Administrative Rules

www.law.cornell.edu

But he got permission? So that law won’t hold up. At the time of collecting he didn’t “know,” so it wouldn’t hold up

 

[August44]

I would also guess Mr Bonsai in the pacific NW is this guy who has been on this thread before flapping his no nothing mouth before. I think his name is supposed to be Delirious but he miss-spelled it.

Delrious​

Seedling · 43 · From Port Orchard, WA
Joined Dec 12, 2016
Last seen Yesterday at 1:31 AM

 

[jevanlewis]

Buddy, Washington State PROHIBITS the collection of ALL Whitebark Pines in the state. PLEASE review all NF rules and guidelines BEFORE you collect! PLEASE REFRAIN from driving up to our state to ILLEGALLY collect and complicate future opportunities we may have to collect LEGAL trees in our backyard.

And why the hell are you using fungicides and pesticides on a recently collected tree?? It will do no good! Clearly you have lots to learn and I recommend you start learning before you continue TAKING trees from the native environment that you will inevitably KILL because you have no clue what you're doing.

RESPECT OUR FORESTS!!!

I respect your passion for protecting at risk species, and I share your enthusiasm for this. A few points:

• I spoke with the ranger for the area and explicitly asked for and received permission to collect any pine found in the area. The ranger didn't call out any restrictions for pines because the area I was in is not a native habitat for any endangered pine species. For this reason, when I found the pine I didn't bother to try to identify the type of pine. When I decided to post this thread, I initially incorrectly identified it as a Whitebark Pine, but with help from forum members determined that it is a Western White Pine (not a threatened species).
• What do you mean by "our state?" I lived in Washington for 15 years and only recently moved away. However, whether you or I are a resident of a particular state is irrelevant: I transplanted this tree from a National Forest, which is a federal, not a state, designation.
• I'm glad to report that the tree is healthy and thriving, despite my extremely light applications of fungicides and pesticides.
• Given your passion for protecting endangered tree species, might I suggest a more effective output of your energy be a donation to the Whitebark Pine Foundation? https://whitebarkfound.org/donate/

 

[Vance Wood]

Unless you know the Woke laws of what ever state you are collecting in you best not do so. If you do tell them it is a Limbar Pine, almost impossible to differentiate one from the others. Odds are the tree you did collect was Limber Pine anyways; White Bark grow at very high altitudes.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Whoa @Bonsai_in_the_PNW !

You must have information others don’t have access to as the latest FWS data shows the Whitebark Pine Notice of Proposed Rulemaking was December 1st 2020 and no Notice of Final Rule Making was done. Thus, unless you know something the FWS doesn’t, the species is not listed as threatened.

btw the Oregon Rule only applies to Listed Species, which Pinus albicaulis is not.

If you come on this forum with intent to flame someone, please come with the proper references too.

Thanks
DSD sends

 

[Vance Wood]

Whoa @Bonsai_in_the_PNW !

You must have information others don’t have access to as the latest FWS data shows the Whitebark Pine Notice of Proposed Rulemaking was December 1st 2020 and no Notice of Final Rule Making was done. Thus, unless you know something the FWS doesn’t, the species is not listed as threatened.

btw the Oregon Rule only applies to Listed Species, which Pinus albicaulis is not.

If you come on this forum with intent to flame someone, please come with the proper references too.

Thanks
DSD sends

AKA Fake Information.

 

[Delrious]

I would also guess Mr Bonsai in the pacific NW is this guy who has been on this thread before flapping his no nothing mouth before. I think his name is supposed to be Delirious but he miss-spelled it.

Delrious​

Seedling · 43 · From Port Orchard, WA
Joined Dec 12, 2016
Last seen Yesterday at 1:31 AM

Nice work detective, however, if all white pine were off limits in Washington that would be news to me. I was happy to let this thread get buried.

 

[andrewiles]

I really wish we could have intelligent discusions here. Please just stop the petty name calling, everyone.

I emailed a local ranger district and got in touch with their silviculturalist. This is what he said:

• Me: As a "candidate" species for threatened status, is there an implied global do-not-transplant requirement for whitebark pine (say, across the PNW), or is it still a local district or forest decision?
• Him: There is no implied restriction regionally. Should whitebark pine officially become a threatened species there could be some direction from our Regional Office, which manages Washington and Oregon forests, to restrict harvesting the species. Or, maybe not. Due to its high elevation habitat, I would imagine much of the whitebark pine in the PNW is located in designated wilderness which in itself restricts plants from being harvested. So it may be up to the individual forest to determine if it needs additional protections for the tree beyond wilderness protection.
• Me: More generally, if I ask a permit office "what can't I collect in your district" and they give me a list, can I treat that as the final say? Or am I on the hook to do research myself to make sure they didn't omit some restricted species? If the latter, what is the definitive place I look to make sure I've got the right list?
• Him: Each Forest is responsible for letting you know what is restricted, so yes you can treat this as the final say.

So, as far as I'm concerned, the expectation of all of us is to ask each district for their do-not-touch list, when acquiring permits. That is the source of truth.

As an aside, he also highlighted the other key ways threatened species are protected, even if not officially designated so. Wilderness areas, national parks, etc. that forbid any collection at all. I for one can attest that it is very hard to get high enough in Washington, in legal areas, to even reach whitebark pines.

@Bonsai_in_the_PNW, please see my comment above from earlier in this thread. I talked to a silviculturalist for one of our local forests. These are the people that lay down the rules on collection and other timber uses. There is no statewide rule since it is a candidate threatened species, not an officially approved threatened species (as of this summer). So when acquiring a permit, if the local ranger district does not outlaw its collection it is OK. This is not my opinion, this is what the local forest service authorities have directly told me.

I think you're also making a poor assuption that we all have a disrespect for our forests and our shared resources, and a disregard for the rules that manage them. Far from it.

 

[Delrious]

Andrewiles, this was correct. Some districts I called were still allowing Whitebark Pines to be collected, however, every NF district in Washington at elevation was explicitly telling me Whitebark pines were not allowed due to pending ESA status. That's not to say they weren't allowed in the past. I will say of other locations mentioned in this thread, Elk Horn mountains unit in Oregon did say that they allowed Whitebark Pine collection.

However, now that it's on ESA all federal lands are off limits to collecting:

Q&As: Whitebark pine listing as Threatened | U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service

Questions and Answers: Whitebark pine listing as Threatened and 4(d) rule December 14, 2022

www.fws.gov

 

[andrewiles]

Yeah, I head the same thing last year. Every district I talked to said "no" to whitebark pines. But the year before it was different.

 

[August44]

I re-read this thread again and saw the post/pictures about the pitch spots on the trunk of the OP's tree. I had two of those spots on my collected White Bark pine. They are definitely from a tree eating beetle of some kind. I got rid of them by sticking a needle into the hole and jamming it around. Then wipe the area off. If no more pitch shows up, no more bug. Tree is doing well and very healthy now.

 

[jevanlewis]

Update:

• The only thing I've done with this tree is fertilize, water, and provide lots of sun. It's been one of my strongest growing trees since relocating from Seattle to Utah.
• Because there is so much branching, I need to do some pruning and wiring this fall to avoid whorls and bulging and to set the basic structure.
• I might repot next spring, depending on how heavily I prune this fall.
• The trunk has barked up nicely, but the shape is going to pose a challenge since it runs horizontally on the ground for a few inches. Is there any risk of rot if the trunk just lays on the ground? Will it eventually sprout roots where it contacts the ground?
• I will probably reduce the surface moss a little bit, but at this elevation with so much sun, even with the thick layer of moss, the moss and soil underneath dry out very quickly.

As an aside, I went hiking on the 4th in Montana with a collection permit. It was funny to pass thousands of healthy Whitebark Pine, muttering to myself many times, "They don't look endangered to me." Of course, I didn't collect any WBP due to their being classified as "Threatened." But, I did pick up a few small Subalpine Fir, which I'll post in another thread.

 

[August44]

Nice looking WWP. Not to worry about the trunk laying on the ground. You can always change the angle of the tree at re-potting and bring the trunk up a bit.