Whitebark Pine — Propagating from Cones

I understand and do not have problems with those animals here... If you used any protective meshes?...
I could, but the entire reason I grow these trees is to add beauty to my yard / life. I avoid putting anything plastic in my yard or anything that just kind of looks utilitarian. Plus squirrels are the USA's busted ass version of monkeys. they're pretty good at destroying anything flimsy. as of yesterday they began picking the flowers off my green tea bush (camelia sinensis) and just kind of shredding them, seemingly for no reason
 
I wish the best of fortune with growing these. I also have a couple of cones I collected and have a soft spot for these beautiful trees. Looking at your cones I have questions. If the trees had full sized but unripe cones on them what color were they? Did they have a LOT of pitch on them? How many needles were in each bunch(2, 3 or5)? The reason I ask is that only one of your cones looks possibly like WB pines I've seen. The small one at the bottom of the picture(maybe). Immature(full size but not ripe yet)cones I saw were purple and about as wide as long and very pitchy. Also mine did not open up at room temp. Check out Whitebark Pine Ecosystem Foundation Website for some good info. They are in Missoula so you could maybe even visit them;).
 
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As Potawatomi13 said your cones don't look like WBP cones as they arent dark enough. But you still could have fun trying to grow the seeds you get from the cones. WBP grow very slowly....
 
The oblong shape makes me think limber pine a bit. The two species are pretty hard to differentiate. Limber cones are often opening up by that stage though so maybe just longish whitebark cones.
The cones are supposed to be the easiest way to tell the trees apart..
 
room car temperature probably not ideal.. but who knows. I know jack pine cones need to actually be set on fire to make the seeds grow, and now I want a white bark pine. good luck!

Sheffields or Schumachers might have seed. They've some pretty unusual tree seed. Perhaps internet search might even produce trees;).
Went searching myself and found nursery listing this tree;

Rich's Foxwillow Pines Nursery, Inc.
11618 McConnell Road
Woodstock, Illinois 60098 USA – View Map

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Phone: 815-338-7442
Fax: 815-338-7446
 
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And another of Limber pine;). Both notable and worthy trees.
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Well, I know the mountaintop that the parent trees grow on gets absolutely bombarded with snow and wind during winter, big time. So chances are they expect some sort of cold storage period.

If seeds are under the snow, they are actually protected pretty well from wind, cold, and dryness. Not like, for example, walking down Michigan Avenue in Chicago in January! :)
 
Here are a couple of WB Pine cones from under a large specimen here. They are a very high value food source to many different species. I either find cones that have been cut from trees too early that fail to ripen, or mature cones like these. Already cleaned out. I examined over a dozen cones under this single tree. All were opened like this. Not a single viable seed was left.IMG_0838.JPG
 
Here are a couple of WB Pine cones from under a large specimen here. They are a very high value food source to many different species. I either find cones that have been cut from trees too early that fail to ripen, or mature cones like these. Already cleaned out. I examined over a dozen cones under this single tree. All were opened like this. Not a single viable seed was left.View attachment 119879

I came across an old disused cabin in the woods last winter that was three feet deep in shucked WB cones. Pretty funny. Large seeds, like pine
nut size almost. The high elevation WB here have been getting hammered hard by beetle and blister rust. Nearly all the old, old ridge top ones dead in the last 6 years in a lot of the places I go skitouring. Sad. Lots of young trees still mixed into the forest anyways. The big guys not dead everywhere yet.
 
Here are a couple of WB Pine cones from under a large specimen here. They are a very high value food source to many different species. I either find cones that have been cut from trees too early that fail to ripen, or mature cones like these. Already cleaned out. I examined over a dozen cones under this single tree. All were opened like this. Not a single viable seed was left.View attachment 119879
No kidding! Looking at cones on Crater Lake trees nearly every cone ON the trees on Mt Scott looked like this. Very few ripe ones intact. Watching Clarks Nutcrackers work these have much harder beaks than I'd imagined:eek:.
 
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@Cerauno - Hello, I have some experience starting white pines from seed. I have raised batches, or at least got germination with Pinus flexilis, lambertina, parviflora (JWP) bungeana, and edulis. I lost all the limber pines and sugar pines to damping off, but I did get good germination. My humid summers and too shady a spot caused the damping off. Pinus albicaulis - Whitebark, is very much in the same group and seed should most likely require the same treatment. My JWP, and Lacebark pines are finishing their 3rd summer.

All members of the white pine group have seeds that do not store well. About 18 months dry and cool, and viability will drop below 50%, and at 3 years will be a percentage down into the single digits. So plant your seeds this fall. Get the stratification process going. When you have fresh seed that has not dried out, some seedlings will germinate immediately. The majority will need first a summer ''warm'' stratification of 60+ days and then a cold stratification of at least 90 days. The natural method is to plant them in a flat, keep them outdoors, and do not disturb the flat for 2 full summers. I use Anderson flats, 15 x 15 x 5 inches, with mesh bottoms. I construct a 1/4 inch mesh hardware cloth (wire mesh) cover and tie it securely to keep out squirrels and varmints. Absolutely necessary in my area. Seeeds emerge through mesh, end of second growing season they still have no branches so it is easy to lift the wire top off. For deciduous seedlings, wait until autumn after leaf fall and the mesh will lift off easily. Without the wire screen, you will just be feeding squirrels and birds.

Planted in autumn, usually a few sprout the next spring, then the second spring another percentage will sprout. If you don't want to leave a flat for 2 years, plant seed in spring, and then by the end of the following summer most that will sprout will have done so. It is a pain the behind, but really, you won't know what you will get for 2 full growing seasons.

Full sun, and good exposure to air, a breeze is your friend, otherwise damping off is a problem.

By the way there are no legal issues collecting seeds or trees from private property if you have land owner's permission, at least in the USA. Pinus albicaulis while conscensus is that it is either threatened or endangered has not been listed by USDA as Endangered, because they claim to not have adequate funding to meet requirements if it does get listed, so it is not ''officially'' listed in the USA, but it is Listed in Canada. So collect all you want from your brother's land. As long as his land is in the USA, no problem.

Since you are in Montana you have a good shot at being able to grow it, It is a species that will likely not do well at low elevations, in the warm humid eastern and southeastern parts of the USA. High temps, especially at might are rough on this species. This is true of many mountain species, They can only take heat if nights still get cool. How cool, I don't know the ''magic number, my guess if you don't drop below 65 F most of the time at night, you won't be able to keep it happy.
 
@Leo in N E Illinois I collected JWP seeds last year. I kept only the sinkers after soaking for 48 hours. Of the 60+ that I collected only about 8-10 sank. Of those 4 grew this spring. Is sinking an indication of a viable JWP seed or just plant them all and see what you get?
 
@Leo in N E Illinois I collected JWP seeds last year. I kept only the sinkers after soaking for 48 hours. Of the 60+ that I collected only about 8-10 sank. Of those 4 grew this spring. Is sinking an indication of a viable JWP seed or just plant them all and see what you get?
Yes and yes. At one time I had two-hundred JWP's grown from seed. Fungal infections got most of them I now have five left.
 
@Leo in N E Illinois I collected JWP seeds last year. I kept only the sinkers after soaking for 48 hours. Of the 60+ that I collected only about 8-10 sank. Of those 4 grew this spring. Is sinking an indication of a viable JWP seed or just plant them all and see what you get?
Next time keep the sinkers and floaters separate; note the count you have of each, then stratify/plant them identically and see/find-out for yourself.
 
lost all the limber pines and sugar pines to damping off, but I did get good germination. My humid summers and too shady a spot caused the damping off.

Do you ever use any of the mycorrhizal inoculants? I know there's a lot of controversy(it'll come on its own etc etc).. I think in the case of young seedlings and damping off prevention that might be the scenario where it really does make a difference.
 
Bunch of white bark pine seeds on sheffields.com for a pretty good price. If anyone is interested in their own experiment
 
As has been said they are slow growers these two have just finished their third season. G.
 

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