White Pine Decision Please Help Me Choose

[daphantom99]

Hi Fellow Bonsai Nuts... I need help choosing between the following two white pines.

Plant1 - Fewer Branch, healthier foliage, smaller trunk but nice Nebari
Plant2 - Alot of branches to work with, weaker foliage, larger trunk and Nabari not as nice as plant 1

 

[Rivian]

righthand one

 

[jaco94]

I think I'll pass my turn looking for a tree a little more interesting, sorry for being so brutal.

But to develop my answer a bit, I will say this :
a few years ago I would probably have bought one of the two and then done some work, then, understood that the tree would never become really interesting ...

In short, if I had one advice to give it is not to buy a tree because it is less ugly than the one next , but to only buy a tree if you think it can become beautiful and you will still like it in 5, 10 or 20 years ...
I hope you will take my very direct remark well.
Kindly

 

[daphantom99]

Hi Jack,

I appreciate your honesty and I do believe in what you say is totally true. It's in the eye of the beholder when selecting a starting point; however, since I'm so new to JWP I don't know what to look for future-wise... that will eventually get me to my short-term 5-10 years goal of owning something really pleasing to everyone including me.

I think both are really nice in my opinion and both have future potential... it's just I don't have that budget to afford both in the short term. I wouldn't know what to look for as a starting point whether it's ugly or not.

Hope that helps why I asked that question... mainly budget and a true beginner when it comes to white pines.

Regards,

 

[daphantom99]

Hi Jack,

By chance do you own a JWP? If so.. would you mind sharing a picture of your favorite from your collection?

Just to get a reference on how much of a NOOB I am in the world of pines and bonsai materials.

Thanks,

 

[jaco94]

I'm glad you took my point, which was very direct.

Also, I have to apologize because I didn't see that you were a beginner and that it was your first post, sorry for that, and welcome to this great forum!

My advice is therefore much less valid, because you have to start well and train with trees that inevitably have some flaws ... (your photo of plant 2 pleases me more)

For my part, I do not have much experience, I have been practicing for 5 or 6 years.
The only experience I got is "thanks" to my many mistakes, and it goes on and on ...

At the beginning, I was only interested in conifers and especially white pines, I found that they were like the symbol of Japanese bonsai and I have been passionate about this country for quite some time.

Alas, I quickly realized that their culture was much more difficult, (our climate is very different from the Japanese climate) than what I imagined for a beginner like me, today my tastes have changed a lot and I prefers leafy trees although I also really like junipers which are much easier to keep alive than white pines I find.

I found some photos of two of my white pines, they unfortunately died.



This one has changed its style to be carried out in the waterfall style (both photos are the same white pine)




Another small white pine which died very quickly (surely a watering problem and a too small pot), I liked it too.



Kindly
Jacques

 

[daphantom99]

Thank you Jack for your helpful response. If you don't mind me asking... do you live in the states and if so where may I ask? I'm from Southern California and I find it definitely more difficult to grow trees specifically from Japan. Japanese maple and white pines comes to mind, but call me crazy... i like that challenge even though 9 out of 10, I will probably end up killing the plants due to no winter in Los Angeles for the plants to go dormant.

 

[daphantom99]

I decided to keep plant 2... what flaws do you see jumping out when you first see it and how would you train it in order to hide those flaws?

Thanks in advance!

 

[jaco94]

No, I live in France near Paris ( that explains all my translation mistakes , sorry ...)

An important thing with white pines is not to try to go fast, that is to say : not to do too many things at the same time ( same year ) and to make sure that the tree is in a good substrate first.

I believe that you will get lots of good advice from others on this forum, you have to try to put photos with several angles so that we can better "understand" its structure.

 

[hinmo24t]

you put charcoal in your soil?

 

[jaco94]

you put charcoal in your soil?

No, I had tried two or three times , but in principle I don't use any.

 

[daphantom99]

Yes, I use a mixture of Fir Bark, Lava rock, sand, sphagnum peat moss and pumice. I've also re-potted it into an air pot... I hope I didn't kill it already.

Anyways... I've attached additional pictures. Any advice would greatly be appreciated.

1. Trunk and Nebari
2. How I would eventually end up styling the tree

 

[daphantom99]

Also, the yellowing and browning of the tips on some of the needles.. are those normal?

 

[hinmo24t]

No, I had tried two or three times , but in principle I don't use any.

put a little wood coal into/under tomato plants and they will grow like crazy!!!

 

[daphantom99]

put a little wood coal into/under tomato plants and they will grow like crazy!!!

Does that apply to white pine as well?

 

[roberthu]

I’d go with the 1st one if the price is low enough. Cut it back to the bottom left branch and develop a semi cascade

 

[hinmo24t]

Does that apply to white pine as well?

hmmm

As long as you use an additive-free, wood charcoal, you can use it as fertilizer. The ash contains potash (potassium carbonate), which is nutritious for many plants. ... Don't use charcoal ash with acid-loving plants (like blueberries, azaleas and hydrangeas), nor newly planted seedlings and seeds.

it raises the PH

 

[jaco94]

I just know that some of the greatest Japanese masters use charcoal to put some in their substrate, of course this is not the only explanation to obtain the most beautiful bonsai in the world.
(I believe that the Japanese are far, far ahead of the rest of the world for the exceptional quality of their trees, and in particular white pines).

I don't think it's the charcoal from our barbecues, but rather the activated charcoal used for aquarium filters.

I understand more or less how it works for an aquarium, but I will be absolutely unable to explain how it works for bonsai, and what the real effects are.

 

[Adair M]

Neither. These are not suitable for Southern California. You would do much better with a Japanese Black Pine or a juniper.

 

[daphantom99]

I have two Japanese black pines too... giving the white ones a try. I have it facing morning sun and full shade by noon.

I'm guessing this will be an expensive and short lived experiment.