Which Branch Should I Keep For The Top

[molivella]

After months of searching, I finally found a dwarf black olive pre-bonsai to replace my old black olive that I lost this past summer (long story). The style of this tree is nothing like my old tree but I fell in love with this guy. It’s 24” tall from the soil to the top and the trunk is over 2” wide at the base. The trunk has an acceptable taper for the first 16” or so that leads to the top where there are 4 upright branches, one of which I can select as my “top”. I will attempt to illustrate my options with a photo of the top.



I hope you can see the 4 “top” options as well as the side branch to the left of the branches that would be my “top”, a branch that I would likely lop off as I think it is too thick for a side branch that close to the top but if you disagree please weigh in.

Starting from the left, there is a thick upward branch emanating from a leftward curve of the trunk that is almost 1” thick. Behind it is another thick upward branch (the dark one) that is as thick if not thicker. Then there is a thin upward branch that is 1/4” thick and finally an upward branch that is 1/2” thick (furthest to the right).

All of the branches except the thin one have shoots that angle upward, all of which (except the one that would be left to serve as the top) could be wired and bent into side branches to begin filling out a canopy on the upper part of the tree. The thin branch does have growth on the very end which would likely develop into a top and side branching.

At the risk of trying everyones’ patience after all this, what branch would you use for the top? My thought is that the two thick branches do not lend themselves to a pleasing trunk taper and/or a tree that would be too tall for the trunk base. If I use the thin branch and lop the top of the tree off to use that branch, that woul create too severe of a taper. My first impression is to use the branch on the far right with a diagonal cut of the trunk just to that branch’s left and in time that branch would thicken enough to create a pleasing, proportional taper to the top. Using that branch would also follow the trunk line upward which I think is appropriate since the style of this tree seems to lend itself to a formal upright look.

I welcome any and all advice and thoughts before I decide what to do and thank you in advance for weighing in.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I have no experience with black olives. Since you have had one, do they grow quickly for you? If yes, pick a thin branch. If they are slow growing for you, then pick a thicker branch.

From your photos, I can't tell much. Next time, for the whole tree photos, camera lens needs to be level with the top edge of the pot. You need pictures from 4 sides for readers to make sense of this tree. The detail photos need to be level with the area being detailed.

Sorry I cannot help.

 

[molivella]

I have no experience with black olives. Since you have had one, do they grow quickly for you? If yes, pick a thin branch. If they are slow growing for you, then pick a thicker branch.

From your photos, I can't tell much. Next time, for the whole tree photos, camera lens needs to be level with the top edge of the pot. You need pictures from 4 sides for readers to make sense of this tree. The detail photos need to be level with the area being detailed.

Sorry I cannot help.

Thanks, Leo. I’ll take more photos tomorrow as you have suggested.

 

[miker]

The following is where I would make the chop, when the tree is ready and when the time of year is right.

 

[Tieball]

I don’t know anything about black olive trees....however....Black Olives are a weakness of mine. A bowl of Black Olives does not last long once I spot them.

Ahhhh...hungry for Black Olives now.....but, back to the tree. I agree with the chop point shown by @miker thats exactly what I was thinking at first glance. With a second glance, I wanted to chop higher but have no idea if a black olive readily back buds.....I guess at some time you’ll find out. I’d probably chop higher and want to see what happens.

 

[miker]

The reason I would not chop higher is due to the long, straight, taperless section immediately above where I suggested for the chop. I think that would always bug me if this were my tree.

 

[Tieball]

The reason I would not chop higher is due to the long, straight, taperless section immediately above where I suggested for the chop. I think that would always bug me if this were my tree.

Yeah...it would probably bug me too.....but I thought that I would chop higher just to find out what happens. Since there’s not much information about black olive trees. The tree can always be chopped lower.

 

[sorce]

Yeah....I'd layer it up there for a clump..

And Chop the Miker orange.

And yeah....
Subway...
Dont slack on the black olives.
I said A LOT.

Sorce

 

[molivella]

The following is where I would make the chop, when the tree is ready and when the time of year is right.

View attachment 172825

So you and a couple of others that have weighed in (@Tieball @sorce ) would style the tree with a flatter look and pads extending from the trunk. I envisioned a more informal upright look as in the example below. I have two buds that are popping out of the left side of the trunk, about 3" up from the left bottom branch, that would likely develop into a side branch or branches that would fill that void on the middle left side of the tree, plus there is a branch in the back at the same elevation that I can wire and bend to the left to provide additional depth to that/those branch(es) in the hopes of filling the void that exists. Doers this change any of the opinions on where to cut?

Many thanks for the input.

 

[sorce]

Doers this change any of the opinions on where to cut?

This is borderline you asking us to change your opinion.

What do you like?

Depends what day it is for me....
But also...I do not believe in target trees...
I mean, it's a good rough idea....
But a drawing of your tree with its straight section, and the future drawn in, is more accurate to your senses than a different tree, when seeking a true target.

Its all here for me....
https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/help-needed-with-eu-olive-styling.7016/

That tree wont be flat forever!

And that clump is dope!

Want a straight one? Layer that middle off too!

No rush!

This is a wicked piece!

Sorce

 

[Vin]

God's Country huh. Are you in Panama City?

 

[miker]

I like the idea of layering the top half off as Sorce suggested, then chopping down to where I indicated in the drawing.

In my opinion, even for an informal upright, roughly like the other tree you posted a photo of, that straight taperless section will have to go. It will take some years to build a nicely tapered trunk and apex, but it can certainly be done. The branch at the top on my drawing could be wired appropriately and allowed to become the new leader and grown out as such or you could chop even lower to just above one of the lower branches so one of those branches could be the new leader.

I see an excellent bonsai in this tree eventually, but again, it will take some years to get there.

 

[molivella]

God's Country huh. Are you in Panama City?

Tallahassee

 

[Vin]

Tallahassee

Cool! Are you a member of the club over there? I'm on their email list and they seem to be pretty active.

 

[molivella]

This is borderline you asking us to change your opinion.

What do you like?

Depends what day it is for me....
But also...I do not believe in target trees...
I mean, it's a good rough idea....
But a drawing of your tree with its straight section, and the future drawn in, is more accurate to your senses than a different tree, when seeking a true target.

Its all here for me....
https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/help-needed-with-eu-olive-styling.7016/

That tree wont be flat forever!

And that clump is dope!

Want a straight one? Layer that middle off too!

No rush!

This is a wicked piece!

Sorce

Sorry if it sounds like I am looking for reasons to change my mind, @sorce . When I bought the tree I never thought about cutting off at the mid section or above the lower branches. I just wondered which top branch to keep. That's why the post was captioned as one asking which of the top branches I should keep. After the comments, I went through @JudyB 's thread re: her olive and @JudyB I see now what you meant and I can appreciate more your suggestion as to where to cut. Several others have offered the same input (@Tieball @miker). I just have one nagging reservation and that is this is a dwarf black olive, or bucina spinosa, that hails from Cuba, the Florida Keys, and the Bahamas. It's a completely different tree than the conventional European olive like @JudyB 's. It is not going to develop branches like Judy's nor ramify the same way. It will develop branches like the ones below:



Most Dwarf Black Olives that Ive seen are styled with pads at varying levels, alternating left, right, back, etc. If I lop off above the lower branches, I can certainly develop this tree into that style with the lower branches serving as the lower pads and then grow it from there. I could also go with @miker 's suggested chopping point and wire/bend/develop the uppermost right branch upward so as to begin the upward development using that branch )it would essentially become the new top/continuation of the trunk. Is that what is being suggested by those of you who have commented?

I'm seeing the tree differently thanks to all of you. Since it's January, I won't be making the cut until probably March or April when the growing season kicks off (but I do have it in my greenhouse so I guess I could make the cut right after the coldest temps die down....). Maybe what I need os for one of you to come over and lop the thing off when I'm not looking to spare me the angst that I have i n making such a drastic cut....

 

[molivella]

Cool! Are you a member of the club over there? I'm on their email list and they seem to be pretty active.

No, I've always kind of been a lone wolf. But, I did contact them last week and will try to make this month's meeting unless I have a conflict (I'm a sports photographer and shoot for Florida State - not sure what the men's/women's basketball schedule is like but if either have a game that Sunday I have to shoot it).

 

[Vin]

I'm with the others, the straight center section has to go. Although I do not own a Spinosa, I have been looking for "the right one" for a few years now. Anyway, I understand them to be tropical so heavy pruning/chopping would be done in the Summer. But, maybe I'm wrong.

 

[Vin]

BTW, I'd figure out a way to make a semi-cascade with your tree (after layering off the top) if it were mine. I do see one in there.

 

[petegreg]

I like the idea of layering the top half off as Sorce suggested, then chopping down to where I indicated in the drawing.

In my opinion, even for an informal upright, roughly like the other tree you posted a photo of, that straight taperless section will have to go. It will take some years to build a nicely tapered trunk and apex, but it can certainly be done. The branch at the top on my drawing could be wired appropriately and allowed to become the new leader and grown out as such or you could chop even lower to just above one of the lower branches so one of those branches could be the new leader.

I see an excellent bonsai in this tree eventually, but again, it will take some years to get there.

This, definitely. And regrow a new top.

 

[sorce]

Sorry if it sounds like I am looking for reasons to change my mind, @sorce

No reason to be sorry!

"Borderline"....is crucial!

Plus, even if it was beyond borderline, an open mind still can grasp the concept, which can lead to your enlightenment, which it has!

And here we are furthering it!

I'm learning.

And I am 98% certain by the next time we see this tree, the work done will be all yours! And fantastic!

Way to keep an open mind!

Love it!

Sorce