Which Am. hornbean would you collect?

[Javaman4373]

I have been looking for an Am. hornbeam to collect and found these two growing close to each other on my neighbor's land. He gave me permission to collect whatever I want. I have a certain fondness for starting a bonsai with a stump, and the larger of these two has some really nice roots. It will be a major job digging it out next spring. The smaller one has some trunk movement and would be easier to lift. What do you think?

 

[Jrmcmich]

Could do both

 

[Gabler]

I'd take both, lol. If I had to take just one, I'd collect the smaller one. You could develop it into a decent bonsai in a reasonable timeframe.

 

[Gabler]

Thread 'Five Year Native Tree Challenge: Gabler's Ironwood #2'

Mar 30, 2021

I found another last-minute addition to collect before leaf-out. It's a small Carpinus caroliniana with decent nebari from the front and an interesting movement to the trunk. A potted picture to follow.

• Gabler
• Replies: 27
• Forum: The 2021 Five Year Native Tree Challenge

 

[Shibui]

We see lots of interest in big trunk bonsai these days but don't underestimate the time (years) and work it takes to convert a big stump into a great bonsai
Starting smaller will often give you a quicker and better result.

 

[Dav4]

The smaller one has what appears to be a decent base, as well as decent movement down low. Its relatively smaller size also makes it more easily collectible, so, if I could only grab one, it would be this one.

 

[Wood]

Devil's advocate here: some of the best big Korean hornbeams were stumps when they were collected, and you'll never be able to develop that muscling in a pot

You should collect the small one. The big one is a *major* growing project for a couple decades before it looks nice, and probably not a great tree to learn on. Bigger trees are easier than shohin, but feedback cycles are longer and it's slower to correct mistakes

 

[baldone]

I like both

 

[Adamski77]

+1 to small one

 

[dbonsaiw]

We see lots of interest in big trunk bonsai these days but don't underestimate the time (years) and work it takes to convert a big stump into a great bonsai
Starting smaller will often give you a quicker and better result.

After five years, this is finally starting to resonate with me. I still like the bigger trunks, but having smaller material keeps me engaged and better motivated as I stare at the giant cuts for the next decade on the big ones.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I wouldn't take either unless I was forced to. What I would do is do my trunk chops now, seal the wounds, and come back in a year. You will never get stronger wound recovery than right now while the trees are still in the ground. Once you cut back the roots to collect the tree, I would not be surprised if it pouted for a year or two before it recovered enough for you to start to do additional development / refinement work. Sometimes you have no choice but to collect right now... and sometimes it doesn't matter. But when you are considering raw stock that requires a trunk chop - do it in the ground first.

 

[Dav4]

I wouldn't take either unless I was forced to. What I would do is do my trunk chops now, seal the wounds, and come back in a year. You will never get stronger wound recovery than right now while the trees are still in the ground. Once you cut back the roots to collect the tree, I would not be surprised if it pouted for a year or two before it recovered enough for you to start to do additional development / refinement work. Sometimes you have no choice but to collect right now... and sometimes it doesn't matter. But when you are considering raw stock that requires a trunk chop - do it in the ground first.

Full disclosure... I've never worked/collected/chopped a hornbeams. With that being said, I've read here from several experienced collectors( @rockm) of hornbeams that the best plan would be to both collect and chop in one go vs chop now and collect later. Apparently, the chop will weaken these smaller undergrowth trees to the point where their successful collection and even survival is questionable. Hopefully, others with more experience collecting these trees will chime in.

 

[Dav4]

Double post

 

[Dav4]

Triple post.

 

[rockm]

I wouldn't take either unless I was forced to. What I would do is do my trunk chops now, seal the wounds, and come back in a year. You will never get stronger wound recovery than right now while the trees are still in the ground. Once you cut back the roots to collect the tree, I would not be surprised if it pouted for a year or two before it recovered enough for you to start to do additional development / refinement work. Sometimes you have no choice but to collect right now... and sometimes it doesn't matter. But when you are considering raw stock that requires a trunk chop - do it in the ground first.

I’ve done pre chops on many Carolina hornbeams in the woods. None of them reacted well to it. Some actually declined in health and died back. Others failed to push strong growth and only made spindly weak new shoots for years after. No appreciable thickened least developed even after five or more years. This was in Understory streamside locations

Best way to get a jump on new leader and thickening of this new leaders is to collect Carolina hornbeam all at once in early spring. Barerooting and trunk chop at the same time put the tree in a largish grow out pot with bonsai soil

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I’ve done pre chops on many Carolina hornbeams in the woods. None of them reacted well to it.

Thank you! I stand corrected.

 

[rockm]

Thank you! I stand corrected.

not saying it won’t work on some trees. If they’re not in the woods under other trees things be different

 

[Bonsai Nut]

not saying it won’t work on some trees. If they’re not in the woods under other trees things be different

I understand - but I was posting what I would do based on experience with different deciduous trees, and you have first-hand experience with this species, so that should take precedence.

 

[Gabler]

I suppose the takeaway is that trees in the forest are vulnerable after a chop, whereas trees in good soil, without competition can be chopped in the ground.