When to lift cloned plum tree?

[KWag]

I have an ornamental plum tree with a young tree growing beneath it cloned from a severed root. The parent tree is 15 years old while the young tree is two years old.
I plan digging and potting the young tree to begin a bonsai.
When would be the best time to make the move…now, later this fall, or next spring before bud break?

The photos show the parent tree and the young tree.

My husband topped the young tree last week. New foliage is break in out. Parent current foliage.

The relative size of the clone is now 18 inches tall and the trunk is about 1.5 inches. There is enough trunk below the branching where I can graft buds or twigs from the parent tree for lower branches.


I have been lurking and reading for a week….getting back into bonsai after 30 years…

 

[yashu]

Most trees do best when collected pre budbreak in the early spring. Aftercare matters more than most other factors in collecting trees though so make sure to have a plan to protect and care for the plant.

 

[KWag]

Thank you!
We have an organic garden with raised beds, a grow out room, and a sheltered deck.

 

[Desert O'Piñon]

I agree with @yashu. However, considering the tree was cut back so late in the growing season (assuming you are in a temperate northern hemisphere zone), it will be expending a lot of energy from the roots to produce new foliage. My understanding is that this takes energy from the roots at a time when the tree should be storing energy. It might be better to wait until 2027 just before bud break to ensure it is vigorous enough to survive transplanting. I am inexperienced, though, so I may very well be way off in my advice.
You may get better custom advice from more experienced members if you add your general location/USDA growing zone to your profile. That way people who are growing in similar climates will be able to suggest methods that are successful for them.
Welcome to the NutHouse!

 

[KWag]

I agree with @yashu. However, considering the tree was cut back so late in the growing season (assuming you are in a temperate northern hemisphere zone), it will be expending a lot of energy from the roots to produce new foliage. My understanding is that this takes energy from the roots at a time when the tree should be storing energy. It might be better to wait until 2027 just before bud break to ensure it is vigorous enough to survive transplanting. I am inexperienced, though, so I may very well be way off in my advice.
You may get better custom advice from more experienced members if you add your general location/USDA growing zone to your profile. That way people who are growing in similar climates will be able to suggest methods that are successful for them.
Welcome to the NutHouse!

Thank you. That timeline does make sense. I attempted to edit my profile without success…will try again. I’m in USDA Zone 7, central Oklahoma.

 

[Shibui]

Do you know if the parent tree is grafted, cutting grown or seed grown?
Plums are generally very easy to transplant but I'd still dig it early Spring, before the leaves open. Some species do better if we don't chop the trunk close to transplant but plums can easily cope with transplant, root reduction and chop trunk/branches in one operation if necessary. I've just collected a couple of Prunus cerasifera, which are weed species down here, and removed around 90% of the top and 80-90% of the roots. From experience, they should do just fine.

 

[KWag]

Do you know if the parent tree is grafted, cutting grown or seed grown?
Plums are generally very easy to transplant but I'd still dig it early Spring, before the leaves open. Some species do better if we don't chop the trunk close to transplant but plums can easily cope with transplant, root reduction and chop trunk/branches in one operation if necessary. I've just collected a couple of Prunus cerasifera, which are weed species down here, and removed around 90% of the top and 80-90% of the roots. From experience, they should do just fine.

The parent tree was given to me by my mother in law when we bought our farm in 1996. It was a whip that sprouted from the roots of her ornamental purple plum tree that her grandfather had given her. The fruit is sparse and very tart. As an ornamental maybe 5 plums a year. Lol. Thank you for your advice.

 

[Shibui]

The parent tree was given to me by my mother in law when we bought our farm in 1996. It was a whip that sprouted from the roots of her ornamental purple plum tree that her grandfather had given her. The fruit is sparse and very tart. As an ornamental maybe 5 plums a year. Lol. Thank you for your advice.

All good. I did note the reddish leaves.
The reason for asking is many don't understand a sucker from a grafted tree is the root stock so completely different type of tree to the grafted section. Yours is an ungrafted clone so roots suckers will be the same as the parent tree.

It will remain to be seen what you find when you dig. Sometimes there's just the original thick root. Sometimes the new trunk has already started to grow it's own roots around the base of the trunk. Either way, plums transplant easily so you don't need much root for successful transplant and can then develop more lateral roots in following years.

Grafting extra branches is one way to fill in a bare trunk but it does have disadvantages. Apical dominance means that new grafts below strong branches grow very slowly so they stay thinner. A quicker alternative might be to layer new roots part way up the trunk so the existing branches become your main branch structure.

 

[blackadam]

sucker from a grafted tree is the root stock so completely different type of tree to the grafted section

but exactly same base for grafting (at least i hope it works that way)

 

[Shibui]

but exactly same base for grafting (at least i hope it works that way)

correct. Anything growing from the roots will be a clone of the root stock. We can use such suckers as stock to graft new scions onto - if that's what you want to do. Root suckers is how I usually propagate apple root stocks for grafting new apple trees.
For bonsai purposes, when fruit is not the main concern, root stock may be as good or better as it is often stronger and more disease resistant than the cultivars we use to grow fruit.

 

[KWag]

All good. I did note the reddish leaves.
The reason for asking is many don't understand a sucker from a grafted tree is the root stock so completely different type of tree to the grafted section. Yours is an ungrafted clone so roots suckers will be the same as the parent tree.

It will remain to be seen what you find when you dig. Sometimes there's just the original thick root. Sometimes the new trunk has already started to grow it's own roots around the base of the trunk. Either way, plums transplant easily so you don't need much root for successful transplant and can then develop more lateral roots in following years.

Grafting extra branches is one way to fill in a bare trunk but it does have disadvantages. Apical dominance means that new grafts below strong branches grow very slowly so they stay thinner. A quicker alternative might be to layer new roots part way up the trunk so the existing branches become your main branch structure.

I severed the connection from the parent tree to the clone last year so hopefully there is a new root system. There are a few dormant buds on the trunk I want to try to push in the spring. Grafting roots is a great suggestion! Thank you for that thought. I can do some research on that this fall.

 

[Shibui]

I severed the connection from the parent tree to the clone last year so hopefully there is a new root system. There are a few dormant buds on the trunk I want to try to push in the spring. Grafting roots is a great suggestion! Thank you for that thought. I can do some research on that this fall.

Your tree will certainly be growing on the existing root but that could just be a single fat root going in any direction. What we need for good bonsai is evenly spread lateral roots radiating out from the trunk just at ground level. All trees, including root suckers, will eventually send out new roots all around the trunk but it sometimes takes a few years for them to get started. Fingers crossed yours has already grown some new roots. Otherwise it will be a year or to to get them going.

Just to be clear, I wasn't suggesting grafting roots. Layering is a method to get the trunk to grow new roots of it's own and we can choose where they grow. Search for air layering plants in general but also ground layering for improving bonsai.