What varieties of ITOIGAWA you know of?

Rinzler720

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Hello everyone! I was watching a BonsaiQ video the other day and they mentioned that there are types/varieties of Itoigawa juniper specifically , so I wanted to ask you guys if you know any name and what makes it different? Would be great if you had pictures too but not necessary! Thanks!
 
Itoigawa is a regional variety. Varieties exist in the taxonomic spectrum between species/subspecies and named cultivars, which are clonally identical. I’m not sure that the various itoigawa genetics have names in Japan, but I understand that they are selected to match the characteristics of the particular tree, usually in terms of size.

Outside of Japan, it’s unlikely that there are that many different genetics of Itoigawa floating around, and what there is not named more specifically than Itoigawa—which here in the States, is rather hard to find in any capacity.
 
Different varieties evolve because the species is isolated from others of it's kind. Juniper chinensis is a high mountain tree. Under current climate, populations of J. chinensis are isolated on each mountain and have slowly developed different characteristics.
Itoigawa is named because that's the form that grows around the Itoigawa province. Kishu juniper is the form that grows around Kishu area of Japan.
There are lots of other varieties from other mountains and from Korea, China, Russia and Myanmar.

I had not heard of different forms of any of the district varieties but I'm not surprised to hear there are as even in each area, different mountains will have distinct populations that have been isolated for long enough to develop some visible differences.

When I consider the extensive natural range of the species - Japan, Korea, Russia, China, Myanmar - what I do find interesting is that, so far, only Japanese varieties are considered superior for bonsai. I wonder if that's just because we focus on Japan and Korean bonsai growers are happily growing much better J. chinensis bonsai? Is it that more remote cultivars have not yet been tried? Or is it that those few Japanese identified types are really the best of the bunch?

Please note that Juniper species are hard enough to identify. Variations within regional varieties could be a nightmare to identify or pick. Don't be surprised if someone chooses to give an ordinary J, chinensis 'Itoigawa' a new variety name so they can charge big bucks from gullible buyers. Also don't be surprised if standard Itoigawa is misidentified as something new and sold unwittingly.
 
Different varieties evolve because the species is isolated from others of it's kind. Juniper chinensis is a high mountain tree. Under current climate, populations of J. chinensis are isolated on each mountain and have slowly developed different characteristics.
Itoigawa is named because that's the form that grows around the Itoigawa province. Kishu juniper is the form that grows around Kishu area of Japan.
There are lots of other varieties from other mountains and from Korea, China, Russia and Myanmar.

I had not heard of different forms of any of the district varieties but I'm not surprised to hear there are as even in each area, different mountains will have distinct populations that have been isolated for long enough to develop some visible differences.

When I consider the extensive natural range of the species - Japan, Korea, Russia, China, Myanmar - what I do find interesting is that, so far, only Japanese varieties are considered superior for bonsai. I wonder if that's just because we focus on Japan and Korean bonsai growers are happily growing much better J. chinensis bonsai? Is it that more remote cultivars have not yet been tried? Or is it that those few Japanese identified types are really the best of the bunch?

Please note that Juniper species are hard enough to identify. Variations within regional varieties could be a nightmare to identify or pick. Don't be surprised if someone chooses to give an ordinary J, chinensis 'Itoigawa' a new variety name so they can charge big bucks from gullible buyers. Also don't be surprised if standard Itoigawa is misidentified as something new and sold unwittingly.
 
Apologies for the double post. I was getting 'we ran into problems' notice and now can't delete.
Mods, feel free to delete.
 
Japan isn’t as concerned with cultivars as we are in the west. ‘Itoigawa’ has become recognized as a cultivar, and is just a variant of Juniperus chinensis that has its origins from a certain region in Japan. The Itoigawa variant has a fairly wide range of foliage qualities regarding color and texture.

I have heard of a couple named Itoigawa variants, one is Kiyozuro. A few of us here have one, and I bought mine from the source, Chikugo-en bonsai nursery in Gardena CA. The owner, Gary Ishii could not tell me where his father found it. I am not impressed with it as a variant so far.

I’m a little bit of a cultivar nerd with shimpakus, and have documented some differences among them on my site, and in threads here.
 
The person was likely meaning there are many cultivars of Shimpaku…

In any case. Wondering if one would be better served in a quest to determine which varieties or cultivars of Shimpaku Juniper are best used for bonsai? (I.e. Itoigawa, Kishu, Fudo, Hokkaido etc)

Cheers
DSD sends
 
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