What to do with this Trident Maple

[Pmac]

Hey everyone I am completely new to this hobby and i'm super excited to learn and shape this tree. So here goes, I got my Trident Maple here and I'm wondering what the next step should be. It's roots are currently growing graciously out of the bottom of this pot and I'd say I'm happy with the trunk size. It is starting to lean quite a bit. When and if I am suppose to repot it should I just tilt it until it looks straight? I'd like it to be straight so it has somewhat of a formal upright look without leaning so much but I'm not sure how to achieve that, if even possible. Since the branches are pretty short would it be right to just leave them until next year before I start to shape them out? Any ideas on what to do would be awesome, even if its different than what I am trying to do. Branches to chop? When to repot to its final home in a bonsai pot?

 

[RoadManDenDron]

Welcome to the forum!

If you search trident maple I'm sure you will find plenty of inspiration!

But this trunk is off to a good start compared to alot of the starter material we see on here!

Many of us like to build a tree from the nebari (visible surface roots) up.

So my first step for this tree would be a repot at the correct time of year (spring as the buds swell) to lay the roots out flat into a grow box.

This kinda leads to that it would help a lot to give relevant advice if you can include your location in your profile, just approximate such as state if your in the US for example. We have members all over the world, so while it's winter where I am in the UK our members in AUS are enjoying summer!

Formal upright is actually much harder than it seems as a style, informal upright is much more achievable

I would even suggest not getting too bogged down in conforming to a style, and instead make it look like a small tree that appeals to you!

typically if you're happy with the trunk thickness at this stage, (and the nebari is in place) you would then make a chop and build the next section of trunk (thinner than the first) to create taper in the trunk (see images)




If you wanted you could air layer the top to get another tree for your troubles.

Now you will hopefully see how although the trunk leans, the next leader is leaning the other way, so eventually the trunk will go more upright, but with movement.

In fact you may want to lean the first section even more!

Just some food for thought, at the end of the day it's your tree and as long as you're happy with it is all that matters!

You could remove any extra branches so there is only 1 branch at each location to avoid swelling in the trunk (like your pic of the top shows) and go from there with what you've got.

I notice your pics are also inside, I hope that is just for the photography and this tree lives outside?

 

[just.wing.it]

I would plant into a large wooden box and let it beef up for a few years. Then chop and repeat for a few more years.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Welcome to the forum!

If you search trident maple I'm sure you will find plenty of inspiration!

But this trunk is off to a good start compared to alot of the starter material we see on here!

Many of us like to build a tree from the nebari (visible surface roots) up.

So my first step for this tree would be a repot at the correct time of year (spring as the buds swell) to lay the roots out flat into a grow box.

This kinda leads to that it would help a lot to give relevant advice if you can include your location in your profile, just approximate such as state if your in the US for example. We have members all over the world, so while it's winter where I am in the UK our members in AUS are enjoying summer!

Formal upright is actually much harder than it seems as a style, informal upright is much more achievable

I would even suggest not getting too bogged down in conforming to a style, and instead make it look like a small tree that appeals to you!

typically if you're happy with the trunk thickness at this stage, (and the nebari is in place) you would then make a chop and build the next section of trunk (thinner than the first) to create taper in the trunk (see images)

View attachment 578071
View attachment 578073

If you wanted you could air layer the top to get another tree for your troubles.

Now you will hopefully see how although the trunk leans, the next leader is leaning the other way, so eventually the trunk will go more upright, but with movement.

In fact you may want to lean the first section even more!

Just some food for thought, at the end of the day it's your tree and as long as you're happy with it is all that matters!

You could remove any extra branches so there is only 1 branch at each location to avoid swelling in the trunk (like your pic of the top shows) and go from there with what you've got.

I notice your pics are also inside, I hope that is just for the photography and this tree lives outside?

If the tree is chopped at the red line, it is likely to die back in the area outlined in blue below; back to the ground. I suggest, if you chop, to chop instead at the green line so there is a living branch on either side of the chop, which will allow it to heal. The left side shoot will turn up next spring and give you another section of trunk, with some movement and taper. The shoot on the right should be kept small, and may be useful as the first primary branch at some point.

 

[Pmac]

Welcome to the forum!

If you search trident maple I'm sure you will find plenty of inspiration!

But this trunk is off to a good start compared to alot of the starter material we see on here!

Many of us like to build a tree from the nebari (visible surface roots) up.

So my first step for this tree would be a repot at the correct time of year (spring as the buds swell) to lay the roots out flat into a grow box.

This kinda leads to that it would help a lot to give relevant advice if you can include your location in your profile, just approximate such as state if your in the US for example. We have members all over the world, so while it's winter where I am in the UK our members in AUS are enjoying summer!

Formal upright is actually much harder than it seems as a style, informal upright is much more achievable

I would even suggest not getting too bogged down in conforming to a style, and instead make it look like a small tree that appeals to you!

typically if you're happy with the trunk thickness at this stage, (and the nebari is in place) you would then make a chop and build the next section of trunk (thinner than the first) to create taper in the trunk (see images)

View attachment 578071
View attachment 578073

If you wanted you could air layer the top to get another tree for your troubles.

Now you will hopefully see how although the trunk leans, the next leader is leaning the other way, so eventually the trunk will go more upright, but with movement.

In fact you may want to lean the first section even more!

Just some food for thought, at the end of the day it's your tree and as long as you're happy with it is all that matters!

You could remove any extra branches so there is only 1 branch at each location to avoid swelling in the trunk (like your pic of the top shows) and go from there with what you've got.

I notice your pics are also inside, I hope that is just for the photography and this tree lives outside?

Wow thank you for all of this information. Yeah I had it inside for less than 30mins to get some pics. Lets say I didn't need it perfectly straight. Is all ya'lls opinions still I should chop her down?

 

[Pmac]

If the tree is chopped at the red line, it is likely to die back in the area outlined in blue below; back to the ground. I suggest, if you chop, to chop instead at the green line so there is a living branch on either side of the chop, which will allow it to heal. The left side shoot will turn up next spring and give you another section of trunk, with some movement and taper. The shoot on the right should be kept small, and may be useful as the first primary branch at some point.
View attachment 578076

So what would be the case if I didn't chop? or perhaps chopped further up? maybe i should not try and make this one perfectly straight

 

[misfit11]

So what would be the case if I didn't chop? or perhaps chopped further up? maybe i should not try and make this one perfectly straight

I think it needs a chop. You've got a very straight, taperless trunk here. Taper and movement are what give bonsai their character and interest.

As for chopping higher, I don't think you'd be happy in the long run. I understand the hesitation in chopping something down so far that it's taken a very long time to grow. However, in my experience, many times I've wished that I had chopped lower, only to go back and do so later. You can do the chop now. The chop point that Brian suggested is a good one. This allows for inevitable die back. Make sure you seal the cut with cut paste.

Personally, I would put this in the ground to heal the chop faster. I'd cut the roots back hard (cutting off completely any downward growing roots emanating from the trunk) and attach it to a board to develop nice flat nebari. All this root work needs to be done in early spring, however. Research the Ebihara method for developing nebari. You can be quite ruthless with Trident roots. They are tough.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Welcome Aboard Bonsai Nut!

Agree with the above folks. The low cut as shown about 1 - 1 1/2” above the two lowest branches (to allow for die back) is a good idea.

Yours is a very common question for folks new to maples, especially Tridents. As mentioned above, in this case, the goal is to create the bonsai from the ground up via successive cuts to create the trunk. Along with this to develop branches with the “off” branch (the one that is not the next section of the trunk)… caring for these to keep them short and not bulky… and growing them out as the trunk progress. (One way btw)

Would also concur that a wood box one the ground might be best. The tree will heal slower, but avoid issues that new folks, myself included back in the day, experience due to rapid growth when ground growing. At least for the first tree. Also it has the advantage of beginning setting up the tree’s nebari. (Again please search for Ebihara Method).

There are several threads with box designs posted included. If how to build design the box is a new process, just ask. There are plenty of folks here that create these.

Welcome Aboard once again!

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[dbonsaiw]

I'm wondering what the next step should be.

This is really a you question - what do you have in mind for the tree? The answer to that will dictate what you do next. If you want a thicker trunk, let it grow more. If you want more taper and movement, you will need to cut lower. If you like the trunk as is, start with branch work.

Looking back, I can only tell you what I wish I did with my initial trees that looked like that - repot with good root work when the time is right and get it into a grow box. Saw off an inch or two off the top and watch the reaction of the tree. Find a branch up top and prune it off- how did it heal? Cut another branch back - maybe two at different seasons - and note the ramification. Wire something. Next year, take an air layer off the tree so that you now have two nicely sized trees. In the interim, look at lots of pics of trees, go through progression threads and learn more about bonsai generally.

I say this because I have basically none of the trees I started with. Brian actually gave me the same advice about the low chop on a JM and it died back to the soil because I cut really low and on angle - it’s not that I wasn’t listening to his advice. I was. I just didn’t know enough to understand what he was saying. Take it slow. You are going to be with the tree for decades anyway.

 

[Orion_metalhead]

Why dont you search for and share some selections of trident maples you like the look of, then we can share some insight on how to achieve that goal.

I agree with an early spring repot into a shallpw grow out box with general root work to start. Perhaps look into someone local who can give you assistance.

If this were mine, Id be looking to air layer (create a second tree by forcefully rooting a trunk or branch) the top off before trunk chopping low as others suggest.

 

[Pmac]

Why dont you search for and share some selections of trident maples you like the look of, then we can share some insight on how to achieve that goal.

I agree with an early spring repot into a shallpw grow out box with general root work to start. Perhaps look into someone local who can give you assistance.

If this were mine, Id be looking to air layer (create a second tree by forcefully rooting a trunk or branch) the top off before trunk chopping low as others suggest.

Hey orion, thanks for the tips. I think thats a great idea let me throw some pictures here and see what you guys think about possiblity wise.

Welcome Aboard Bonsai Nut!

Agree with the above folks. The low cut as shown about 1 - 1 1/2” above the two lowest branches (to allow for die back) is a good idea.

Yours is a very common question for folks new to maples, especially Tridents. As mentioned above, in this case, the goal is to create the bonsai from the ground up via successive cuts to create the trunk. Along with this to develop branches with the “off” branch (the one that is not the next section of the trunk)… caring for these to keep them short and not bulky… and growing them out as the trunk progress. (One way btw)

Would also concur that a wood box one the ground might be best. The tree will heal slower, but avoid issues that new folks, myself included back in the day, experience due to rapid growth when ground growing. At least for the first tree. Also it has the advantage of beginning setting up the tree’s nebari. (Again please search for Ebihara Method).

There are several threads with box designs posted included. If how to build design the box is a new process, just ask. There are plenty of folks here that create these.

Welcome Aboard once again!

Cheers
DSD sends

I will indeed research that method! Thank you Deep Sea Diver. What's your thought about how the trunk would heal? If you check the pics of mine above it looks like it healed great and I'd prefer ones without the giant holes from the chop on top (or atleast mostly hidden like mine currently). Or is that inevitable?


So I know these must be older trees, mine is only 9 years old, and the goal would be something similar. I love the look of the semi straight trunk to the expanded top. For mine, I would like it to be a bit taller and larger of a bonsai than the normal ones. That's why I was instantly like "wait chop it all the way?!" because I do indeed want it to be bigger than an average bonsai.

 

[Hack Yeah!]

Welcome @Pmac , I agree with everyone else that the best tree starts lower. Most on this site have 10s if not 100s of trees and have played with many trees. Since you are completely new and may want to enjoy this tree a little more for what's there you'll at minimum want to reduce the top. Deciduous trees are about cutting back for movement and taper. When you repot try to figure out which side makes the base look best and work from there. While I do agree with the others to cut down to the first branch if you want to keep more maybe reduce the top something like this... good luck!

 

[Shibui]

Deciduous formal upright is what we call broom style because deciduous trees rarely form a single trunk all the way from base to apex. They tend to split into several strong branches that divide further and further to the canopy.
The problem I see here is those strong branches are way too high to make a good broom style and those branches are a wild, unruly tangle so I can't see that cluster making a good broom anyway.
Note that this is all very common with field grown tridents. There are very few that make good bonsai straight up. Most need extensive work and, usually, quite a few years of work to get something good.

The low chop is certainly one option but takes you way back. It may produce a better bonsai but will take many years to achieve it. Such a radical option will rarely suit a newer grower.
A higher chop will solve the problem of the top tangle. It will give something more to work with in the shorter term and likely to be more acceptable to a new grower. Whether it will achieve a better bonsai than the low chop is yet to be seen.
One of the guidelines for deciduous bonsai is branches starting around 1/3 of total tree height. Maybe consider how tall you'd like to have this trident eventually then look at the trunk around 1/3 of that for a spot to chop. After that it's a matter of clip and grow as the tree grows with occasional selective pruning to remove tangled branching.

A third option is to leave the trunk as is and just trim branches as they grow to achieve a rounded canopy. That will never achieve a good bonsai but many newbies would rather have any bonsai now than a possible good one sometime in the future.

 

[SeanS]

Deciduous formal upright is what we call broom style because deciduous trees rarely form a single trunk all the way from base to apex. They tend to split into several strong branches that divide further and further to the canopy.
The problem I see here is those strong branches are way too high to make a good broom style and those branches are a wild, unruly tangle so I can't see that cluster making a good broom anyway.
Note that this is all very common with field grown tridents. There are very few that make good bonsai straight up. Most need extensive work and, usually, quite a few years of work to get something good.

The low chop is certainly one option but takes you way back. It may produce a better bonsai but will take many years to achieve it. Such a radical option will rarely suit a newer grower.
A higher chop will solve the problem of the top tangle. It will give something more to work with in the shorter term and likely to be more acceptable to a new grower. Whether it will achieve a better bonsai than the low chop is yet to be seen.
One of the guidelines for deciduous bonsai is branches starting around 1/3 of total tree height. Maybe consider how tall you'd like to have this trident eventually then look at the trunk around 1/3 of that for a spot to chop. After that it's a matter of clip and grow as the tree grows with occasional selective pruning to remove tangled branching.

A third option is to leave the trunk as is and just trim branches as they grow to achieve a rounded canopy. That will never achieve a good bonsai but many newbies would rather have any bonsai now than a possible good one sometime in the future.

The last paragraph got me!

 

[dbonsaiw]

One of the guidelines for deciduous bonsai is branches starting around 1/3 of total tree height. Maybe consider how tall you'd like to have this trident eventually then look at the trunk around 1/3 of that for a spot to chop. After that it's a matter of clip and grow as the tree grows with occasional selective pruning to remove tangled branching.

Kind of along these lines, if it were my tree I’d be tempted to do something like the attached. And angle the new leader better. The cut will leave a wound that will take some years to heal over. That’s the price we pay for thickening a trunk quickly in the ground, as opposed to adopting a cut and grow approach earlier on in trunk development. There’s no right or wrong here, and each approach has its pros and cons. this tree went the field grown route and will need to be chopped back at some point to start building it into a bonsai.