What to do with a (new to me) Old Shimpaku?

[gjones_42]

I'm hoping to get some detailed input on how to acclimate a new-to-me Shimpaku that I received as a gift. I'm an absolute noob to bonsai (avid plant lover though) and this is a beautiful tree that I really want to see thrive. I've been on the fence about when to get started and wouldn't have picked this as my entry point, but here I am so I'll have to dive right in and learn on the fly!

I've been researching like a madman and it seems the most pressing thing is to get it ready for winter. It did not arrive with any information on whether it was mid-hardening, and I'm waiting on this info from the source. Since it is currently in the sunniest window in my kitchen, I need to make a decision on where it is going ASAP, and this is where I can use some input. I am in MA in zone 5b, but located in a valley so tends to be a bit chillier than elsewhere.

It seems like I should get this outside now so it can start hardening for the winter, but I am worried about the roots freezing given that the temps are dipping to 29-32F at night, and I see frost on some surfaces. To complicate things a bit more, the safest location for my plants (i.e., away from the ravening horde of deer) is on a 1st story deck that is south facing. Tons of sun during the day, but open exposure to wind from 2 directions. I know this is not a safe location for all of winter based on losing other potted plants to frozen roots. I overwinter my other plants (young fruit and evergreen trees) in an unheated garage with a single window, and they've fared well.

Is it too soon to stick my Shimpaku in the garage? I didn't want to put it out during the day and bring it in at night since the warmth would impact the hardening. Would it suffice to wrap the roots in some blankets or build a small box from styrofoam to acclimate it for the next few weeks? I've seen posts in the forum about using leaves or mulch to protect the roots, but not sure how to do this on the deck.

I appreciate any good input on where to go from here! I suppose the good news is I'll have plenty of reading to do this winter so I am ready for spring

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Outside please, now. Well, it is late to acclimate a southern tree to a MA winter. Question, where did it come from? If it came from Olive Branch, Mississippi, it won't have time to acclimatize for winter, if it came from Colin Lewis in Maine, it will already be acclimated.

Unheated garage with your fruit trees anytime nights drop below 27F is probably best.

 

[gjones_42]

Outside please, now. Well, it is late to acclimate a southern tree to a MA winter. Question, where did it come from? If it came from Olive Branch, Mississippi, it won't have time to acclimatize for winter, if it came from Colin Lewis in Maine, it will already be acclimated.

Unheated garage with your fruit trees anytime nights drop below 27F is probably best.

Love the definitive answer!! Just brought it out. Looks like lows will only just hit 32 this week, but I'll monitor closely and bring to the garage at night. I believe it came from a nursery in MA, and am trying to get confirmation.

It looks like you're in a similar zone, so at what temperature range (high/low) would you say to park it in the garage for the season as opposed to moving in and out? There is a single south facing window in said garage I can place this in if that would be a benefit. I normally reserve that choice spot for my 2 year old giant sequoia, but this tree would get priority IMO. Would I need any insulation to protect the roots in winter if, for example, I get a subzero cold snap?

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I winter my shimpaku by simply setting them on the ground. After the ground freezes, a little mulch is okay but not absolutely needed. Shimpaku, if they have had time to acclimate, are hardy through all of zone 5. However, freeze thaw cycling will be damaging to lower quality ceramic pots. The unheated garage is a good choice. Ideal as long as temps remain below 40 F most of the time. Below 40F metabolism is slow enough that light is not necessary. I store many not quite hardy trees in a dark well house, no light, works fine as long as temps are below 40 F.

 

[gjones_42]

I winter my shimpaku by simply setting them on the ground. After the ground freezes, a little mulch is okay but not absolutely needed. Shimpaku, if they have had time to acclimate, are hardy through all of zone 5. However, freeze thaw cycling will be damaging to lower quality ceramic pots. The unheated garage is a good choice. Ideal as long as temps remain below 40 F most of the time. Below 40F metabolism is slow enough that light is not necessary. I store many not quite hardy trees in a dark well house, no light, works fine as long as temps are below 40 F.

Thank you, these are valuable data.

I'll monitor the garage temp to make sure it's cold enough to stay under 40. Otherwise, I do have a barn I can use, but that's pitch black and I figured it may want trace light, but it sounds like that would be fine. In the future I'll make a safe space outside near the house so the deer cannot eat the juniper and it can overwinter there.

If I am overwintering in the garage, do I need to help with humidity at all (misting or via tray)?

 

[yashu]

My shimpaku (Kishu and Itoigawa) both remain outside in the winter. I’m in Maine 4b/5a. Once acclimated your tree should have no problem with outside winters with the minimum of protection.

*edit: My Itoigawa came from NEBG in Bellingham, MA last fall and did fine outside on the ground next to my foundation so if your tree is from there it should be fine outside this year as I’m in a colder spot.

 

[gjones_42]

My shimpaku (Kishu and Itoigawa) both remain outside in the winter. I’m in Maine 4b/5a. Once acclimated your tree should have no problem with outside winters with the minimum of protection.

*edit: My Itoigawa came from NEBG in Bellingham, MA last fall and did fine outside on the ground next to my foundation so if your tree is from there it should be fine outside this year as I’m in a colder spot.

Thanks, this is really helpful. Can you expand a bit on what you use as "minimum of protection"? I've seen folks describe mulch, leaves, etc.. around the root ball, but some details would be nice. What kind of mulch, how thick a pile, etc...

For your Itoigawa specifically, approximately how big is the root base? Did you just place it in pot on the dirt next to the foundation and that was all?

I had hoped to experiment with some of these things and learn the hard way with some sacrificial stock, but I don't have that luxury atm...

 

[yashu]

Thanks, this is really helpful. Can you expand a bit on what you use as "minimum of protection"? I've seen folks describe mulch, leaves, etc.. around the root ball, but some details would be nice. What kind of mulch, how thick a pile, etc...

For your Itoigawa specifically, approximately how big is the root base? Did you just place it in pot on the dirt next to the foundation and that was all?

I had hoped to experiment with some of these things and learn the hard way with some sacrificial stock, but I don't have that luxury atm...

It’s currently in an 8” round pot. It was in an 11x6 plastic training pot last winter. I don’t use mulch or leaves any more as I had a problem with rodents girdling my trees below the mulch line and killing them. They are on the south side of my house up against the foundation and most people will tell you to put them on the north side to maintain dormancy. The only reason I put them on the south side is that I have a lowland to the north that opens to the eastern slope of the White Mountains and anything back there will be desiccated by the dry and frigid wind in no time… unless you have a similar situation the north side of your foundation should be better for you. I do bury them in snow if the snow fall is not a wet and heavy snow that will break branches and freeze to a solid block.

 

[yashu]

The Itoigawa doesn’t look like that anymore as it’s in a new pot and has been pruned.

 

[gjones_42]

Got it, and thanks for the pics. Looks similar (base-wise) to what I am working with, so should be fine.

One naive question, if you pile up the snow do you clear it off before watering? Or does occasional snow melt help manage the moisture?

 

[yashu]

Got it, and thanks for the pics. Looks similar (base-wise) to what I am working with, so should be fine.

One naive question, if you pile up the snow do you clear it off before watering? Or does occasional snow melt help manage the moisture?

If the snow on the surface of the soil is not melted away I do not water. If there is nothing on top of the soil or surface dressing I will check them every few days. The soil can become desiccated in short order with our dry winter winds so they should be checked often. If things seem dry I’ll water even if below freezing, again this is a situation where some people will say that’s not wise but I’ve lost more trees to desiccation than I have to them having frozen soil masses… that said usually when it’s below freezing, if you’ve stayed on top of watering, there will be sufficient water in the soil (it may be frozen, but that’s ok).

 

[orangeyeoman]

Nice tree. Where did they get it from?

As others have said, I'd just put it outside, and mulch it in.

 

[gjones_42]

If the snow on the surface of the soil is not melted away I do not water. If there is nothing on top of the soil or surface dressing I will check them every few days. The soil can become desiccated in short order with our dry winter winds so they should be checked often. If things seem dry I’ll water even if below freezing, again this is a situation where some people will say that’s not wise but I’ve lost more trees to desiccation than I have to them having frozen soil masses… that said usually when it’s below freezing, if you’ve stayed on top of watering, there will be sufficient water in the soil (it may be frozen, but that’s ok).

Thanks, really helpful info. I've been thinking about a blue tooth soil moisture meter for other plants, this may push me over the edge.

 

[gjones_42]

Nice tree. Where did they get it from?

No clue

As others have said, I'd just put it outside, and mulch it in.

I've seen this term thrown around. For my (and future noobs' info) what material, how thick, how high? Don't know I'll go this route based on yashu's rodent comment (and knowing I have a very...robust... rodent population here) but still good to get the details out there, as I haven't been able to find it.

 

[Michigan Tree Murderer]

Not to thread jack, but when people say "put them on the ground" does a cement walkway or patio tile/blocks count as "on the ground"?

 

[coltranem]

I grew up in the Merrimack Valley. I am a bit west of you near Worcester now. One thing to be mindful of in the winter is the wind. Keep them protected from direct wind. If the soil is frozen the wind can really dry a tree out. Also be mindful of direct sun because that can cause the soil to thaw and freeze fairly frequently which isn't great. Some of my junipers hand out in my bulkhead. Others stay outside on the ground. I usually surround with leaves. I don't usually do this until December when the ground has frozen.

 

[Paradox]

Not to thread jack, but when people say "put them on the ground" does a cement walkway or patio tile/blocks count as "on the ground"?

It won't be quite as warm as directly on the ground but if it's up against the foundation of your house, it's better than out in the open.

Where you live, you probably get plenty of snow which is a great insulator

 

[gjones_42]

I grew up in the Merrimack Valley. I am a bit west of you near Worcester now. One thing to be mindful of in the winter is the wind. Keep them protected from direct wind. If the soil is frozen the wind can really dry a tree out. Also be mindful of direct sun because that can cause the soil to thaw and freeze fairly frequently which isn't great. Some of my junipers hand out in my bulkhead. Others stay outside on the ground. I usually surround with leaves. I don't usually do this until December when the ground has frozen.

Right on, glad to hear you have direct experience w junipers in this climate. Now I am thinking of a spot on the north side of the house where I could tuck the tree near the foundation and a set of brick steps (so protected from wind on 2 sides) and behind a huge rhododendron that I keep fenced in.

When you surround with leaves, how thick of a pile are you talking? How high up does it go?

 

[gjones_42]

Not to thread jack, but when people say "put them on the ground" does a cement walkway or patio tile/blocks count as "on the ground"?

Very relevant question. From my other experience w plants (i.e., not bonsai) concrete can be a different temperature than the surrounding ground. Especially when its a many inch thick block. Other's can chime in with whether this is good or bad for bonsai specifically.

 

[orangeyeoman]

No clue



I've seen this term thrown around. For my (and future noobs' info) what material, how thick, how high? Don't know I'll go this route based on yashu's rodent comment (and knowing I have a very...robust... rodent population here) but still good to get the details out there, as I haven't been able to find it.

I use bark mulch from any of the big box places. I push my pots pretty close together, to minimize how much mulch I need, and then fill from ground up to the top of the pots, making sure to get it in between the pots too. On the outside edges of the pile of pots, I go about 5"-6" before I let it taper down to the ground. I'm doing it on dirt, so this year I dug down a little bit, to also minimize how much mulch I needed.

The problem with my system is that it puts all the pots together, and my wife can see how many I actually have.