What season is best to prune a pine?

[QuintinBonsai]

Not candle pruning. I mean branch pruning. Is this something to be done in spring only, or can it be done in fall? And are there any good methods to hiding ugly grafts which are high up on a trunk?

 

[Paradox]

What species of pine??

Branch pruning for most pines, late winter to early spring is the best time.
Mugo Pines, the best time is late summer. For my area that means August to early Septembe.
Also for mugos, you want to leave a stub for a year or so to prevent trunk death on that side.

I don't know of a way to fix high graft marks.

 

[QuintinBonsai]

For both JBP and Bosnian pine.

 

[Poink88]

Do you have pics?

I am sure Brian can help you better but I did some chopping around late September (here in Austin, TX) and my (newly purchased then) JBP responded well with lots of back budding.

 

[Attila Soos]

Not candle pruning. I mean branch pruning. Is this something to be done in spring only, or can it be done in fall?

In general, light branch pruning can be done any time. I am doing some branch pruning on my pines right now, and during the past few weeks.

When it comes to heavier branch pruning, that depends on the vigor and strenght of the tree. The safest bet is to do heavy branch pruning right before, or during the growing season. The obvious reason is that the tree can grow back those lost branches right away. For more vigorous and very healthy trees, you can do heavier branch pruning in the fall and winter, but make sure that there is plenty of green left for the dormancy period, and also, reduce watering frequency during this time.

 

[QuintinBonsai]

The Bosnian pine I posted in another thread, but only it got a single reply. lol
Here some new pics at new angles if that helps. Any help as to what branches should be left or kept, and hiding the graft would be appreciated.

 

[QuintinBonsai]

Here is the JBP. I believe it has good movement for it's age, but I would like help as to what style to choose.

 

[Poink88]

You have another issue to deal with on this plant. Aside from the graft, the other is the whorl. You will have to reduce the branches there down to 2 or 3 branches and most likely remove the main as well. I am newbie so wait for the pros.

Good luck!

 

[Attila Soos]

The Bosnian pine that you are showing us, is worthless for bonsai, for two reasons: it lacks low branches, and it has an ugly grafting scar high up.
This is a young whip, that needs to become an impressive trunk at some point. Since there are no low branches, you cannot create bulk and taper. The styling questions would come a few decades later, when you have something to work with.
One can correct ugly scars with well-placed shari, but in this case, the point is moot.

As to the black pine, you need to spend the first 15 years building a trunk and low branches (with needles close to the trunk). THEN you can start thinking about style, branch placement, etc. In the meantime, you need to learn how to build a trunk on pines. That is a verly complex and arduous process in itself. Brent Walston has some great articles on it here:

http://www.evergreengardenworks.com/articles.htm

 

[QuintinBonsai]

The Bosnian pine that you are showing us, is worthless for bonsai, for two reasons: it lacks low branches, and it has an ugly grafting scar high up.
This is a young whip, that needs to become an impressive trunk at some point. Since there are no low branches, you cannot create bulk and taper. The styling questions would come a few decades later, when you have something to work with.
One can correct ugly scars with well-placed shari, but in this case, the point is moot.

Even worthless for the literati style? As with most pines seen in nature, is it not true that most pines do not have low branches? I see many pines in parks, or landscaping that do not have branches until higher up onto the trunk. When we emulate pines of nature, what pines are we trying to represent with bonsai? When I see a tree like this , I marvel at it's impressive sight, but I think to myself, "where do pines actually look like this?" On some rocky mountain crag in China, on a seaside cliff in Japan, yes of course, but I mean on a literal day basis.

Well if what you say is true, what can I do with this pine now? Sell it or keep as nice potted plant?

 

[Attila Soos]

Even worthless for the literati style??

Definitely even worthless for the literati style.

The essence of the literati style is the ancient, battered, austere, clinging-to-life look. This tree is a whip that will never be a successful literati. Don't waste your time.

As far as what to do with it....if you have a backyard, then plant it into the ground, let it grow for a season, and then cut it back as much as you can (without killing it). You may get some new growth in unexpected places, below the current branches. If that happens, then you may have a chance to start a new and more interestint trunk line.

If you don't have a yard, then just get rid of it, because balcony or patio space is precious, and you need room for REAL bonsai material.

 

[Attila Soos]

Even worthless for the literati style? As with most pines seen in nature, is it not true that most pines do not have low branches? I see many pines in parks, or landscaping that do not have branches until higher up onto the trunk.

Great question.
A common mistake for beginners, is to wire a young seedling into the shape of a mature bonsai, and then believe that time will make that seedling look like those masterpieces that you are looking at.
Nothing further from the truth. By doing that, you are actually making sure that your tree will NEVER look like that.

This may sound crazy to you. But as you learn, you will realize that those massive trunks of great bonsai had to go through many stages, before they took on the current look. When you create bonsai from scratch, you are building a trunk with taper and character. To achieve taper and character, you need to grow as many branches as possible, as close to the ground as possible.

Later, those branches will have to go. These are called "sacrifice branches".

When creating literati, you don't need massive trunk, but you need a trunk with lots of character. The character, in the case of literati, comes from age, and movement. You also need a tapering trunk, although the taper is not as prevalent as in other styles.
Literati style should not be attempted until the bonsaist has acquired a certain degree of sophistication and an "eye" for good bonsai. It is the most difficult style to create successfully.

Think about it this way: when you have a full band, with 5 or 6 members, playing a song, then the piano player, or the guitar player can make a mistake here and there, and the band still sounds decent on the stage. But when you create a literati, it is like you alone, playing your violin on the stage, with the whole audience listening. There is nobody else on that stage, just you and your violin. So, you better sound really good, or the recital will be a disaster.
The rock band playing, is like creating an informal upright bonsai. The lone violinist playing, is the literati.

 

[frozenoak]

Think about it this way: when you have a full band, with 5 or 6 members, playing a song, then the piano player, or the guitar player can make a mistake here and there, and the band still sounds decent on the stage. But when you create a literati, it is like you alone, playing your violin on the stage, with the whole audience listening. There is nobody else on that stage, just you and your violin. So, you better sound really good, or the recital will be a disaster.
The rock band playing, is like creating an informal upright bonsai. The lone violinist playing, is the literati.

This makes sense and is pretty eye opening. Thanks.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

That grafting scar will haunt you forever At the same time - you can ALWAYS learn horticulture from a tree like this. You can practice needle reduction, etc. But personally, I would stick it in the ground as a landscape plant.