What kind of training pot for Japanese maple

[Abhishek Dasgupta]

Hi ,

What kind of training pot do you guys suggest for developing a well rounded nibari for a Japanese maple . The cultivar is shishigashira and looking to start training for thicker nibari for the next 15 years or so .

Regards,
Abhishek

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Flatter pots are often used for maples. Yet if the goal is to develop a good nebari right now, one might just wait until next spring and arrange the roots out on a board Ebihara style.

There are numerous threads here on how to do this. Here’s a thread I posted a couple years back using small maples.

Good Luck!

cheers
DSD sends

 

[Abhishek Dasgupta]

Flatter pots are often used for maples. Yet if the goal is to develop a good nebari right now, one might just wait until next spring and arrange the roots out on a board Ebihara style.

There are numerous threads here on how to do this. Here’s a thread I posted a couple years back using small maples.

Good Luck!

cheers
DSD sends

Thank you ! Yes I have been reading about the Ebihara technique and want to apply to my shishigashira whose roots aren’t what I love. Wondering if I can create symmetry in the root flare with ebihara when I repot in spring .

Pictures for reference :-

 

[PeaceLoveBonsai]

Thank you ! Yes I have been reading about the Ebihara technique and want to apply to my shishigashira whose roots aren’t what I love. Wondering if I can create symmetry in the root flare with ebihara when I repot in spring .

Pictures for reference :-


View attachment 457882

Probably best to air layer that to get a good root system & nebari.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Agree. This is a rework project tree. Ebihara won’t fix this. I’m thinking perhaps root grafts might work better, but the Barbary is so disparate in the photos I’m not sure

The photo doesn’t show the rest of the tree, so it’s hard to say where an air layer would be best.

Wondering. Are you a member of Minneapolis Bonsai Society? It’s in Lake Elmo. This would be a good place to bring the tree for an assessment and prioritized work list. They would be a great help!

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[Abhishek Dasgupta]

Agree. This is a rework project tree. Ebihara won’t fix this.

The photo doesn’t show the rest of the tree, so it’s hard to say where an air layer would be best.

Wondering. Are you a member of Minneapolis Bonsai Society? It’s in Lake Elmo. This would be a good place to bring the tree for an assessment and prioritized work list. They would be a great help!

Cheers
DSD sends

Yes I am ! I can show the rest of the tree

 

[Abhishek Dasgupta]

The other idea is to do root over rock for this tree which I initially had in mind when I got the tree … am a newbie so sorry if it’s a stupid idea

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Yeah. Not sure that’s gonna do it.

This is definitely a project tree. It is a great tree to learn techniques though. You may want to air layer off a number of these branches first, then go for one at the bottom. Possibly thread graft on new branches as these are pretty thick.

Bring it in to the club. Ask the folks there for help. It would be a good tree imho to bring to a study group if they have these. Peter Tea would of been a really good guy to see about it.

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[Abhishek Dasgupta]

Yeah. Not sure that’s gonna do it.

This is definitely a project tree. It is a great tree to learn techniques though. You may want to air layer off a number of these branches first, then go for one at the bottom. Possibly thread graft on new branches as these are pretty thick.

Bring it in to the club. Ask the folks there for help. It would be a good tree imho to bring to a study group if they have these. Peter Tea would of been a really good guy to see about it.

Cheers
DSD sends

Well I have done thread grafting with my Kiyohime as it can grow long slender branches in a single season . Problem with shishigashira is the fact that the growth itself is so slow and it doesn’t grow long thin branches that I can thread graft . Atleast not I have seen in my limited experience . So am not sure how can I thread graft it

 

[Paradox]

Root over rock trees are developed using a very young sapling and getting it to grow its root around the rock.

Trying to get an established and lignified root system to wrap around a rock convincingly is very difficult and usually ends up looking like a tree strapped or placed on top of a rock rather than a tree that grew around a rock.

I agree with Deep Sea, this is a great project tree to learn on

 

[Abhishek Dasgupta]

Root over rock trees are developed using a very young sapling and getting it to grow its root around the rock.

Trying to get an established and lignified root system to wrap around a rock convincingly is very difficult and usually ends up looking like a tree strapped or placed on top of a rock rather than a tree that grew around a rock.

I agree with Deep Sea, this is a great project tree to learn on

Thank you for the reply and correcting me !

Well am thinking there are things I have read and have never tried and that might be something I might have to read more . Approach grafting by cutting off a couple of thick roots and regrowing fibrous frost in those areas .

 

[Paradox]

Thank you for the reply and correcting me !

Well am thinking there are things I have read and have never tried and that might be something I might have to read more . Approach grafting by cutting off a couple of thick roots and regrowing fibrous frost in those areas .

Brian Van Fleet has a great thread here about doing ROR with trident maples. He has a really nice one he grew himself

 

[Maloghurst]

Yes I am ! I can show the rest of the tree

View attachment 457886

This a perfect tree to airlayer. I have a huge shishigashira that I have taken 4 bigger air layers then your trunk. They have not failed at all. I personally would not hesitate.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Whatever decided, actual POT needed is pot big enough to grow trunk to desired size. Fancy Bonsai pot last consideration until tree in refinement stage. Trunk first priority after horticultural skills.

 

[Abhishek Dasgupta]

This a perfect tree to airlayer. I have a huge shishigashira that I have taken 4 bigger air layers then your trunk. They have not failed at all. I personally would not hesitate.

Could you please help with what point do you think the air layer will be most suited ?

 

[Abhishek Dasgupta]

Whatever decided, actual POT needed is pot big enough to grow trunk to desired size. Fancy Bonsai pot last consideration until tree in refinement stage. Trunk first priority after horticultural skills.

Absolutely right ! That was the goal of the thread . Any suggestions ?

 

[Maloghurst]

Hello, sorry I don’t come on here much so sorry for the late response.
The red line in the image is the bottom of the layer.
The yellow line would be the top where the roots would grow.
You could groundlayer if you have space to put in the ground or deep box and could work better while growing the trunk thicker. Then the roots would grow from the red line.

 

[BonsaiNaga13]

I'd start with small air layers at the branches and let the trunk back bud. That's what "Practice tree" implies. Don't go too big and kill the whole tree. Leave something to work with.

 

[Ninecloud]

I use all of the main 4 and they all seem to work. For small ones I start with root bags, then they go into Anderson flats or pond baskets. I use supply crates for larger ones, but am changing them to Tokoname training style pots to save on soil volume. All seem to work well for me whether it's air pruning or escape method, roots go nuts in all of em provided they escape. For supply crates I line the sides with weed cover, the grills are easy to wire through and provide maximum escape. I lift those crates from time to time to prune and promote more feeder roots. Sometimes I can't even life the crate without two arms.