What is the smallest 'sustainable' bonsai size?

[Attmos]

I like the idea of really tiny bonsai but I hear that at a certain point, the size becomes impossible to maintain indefinitely. I ask because it seems like some of the slower growing and very abundant trees would be fun.
ERC, for example... lots of them but they grow slowly and are apparently difficult to style at normal sizes. But if you cut a half inch diameter trunk (even quarter inch diameter) down to an inch in height and let it back bud, the trunk would look enormous.

So.. what is the general opinion on sustainability and size?

 

[rockm]

I like the idea of really tiny bonsai but I hear that at a certain point, the size becomes impossible to maintain indefinitely. I ask because it seems like some of the slower growing and very abundant trees would be fun.
ERC, for example... lots of them but they grow slowly and are apparently difficult to style at normal sizes. But if you cut a half inch diameter trunk (even quarter inch diameter) down to an inch in height and let it back bud, the trunk would look enormous.

So.. what is the general opinion on sustainability and size?

Shito is the smallest. 2-4 inches tall. Tiny pots. No room for any errors watering or pruning. I’ve seen a few in person. Wouldn’t want to be responsible for watering them. They dry out an hour or soon after they’re watered

Would NEVER actually have one.

Mini and Mame Bonsai - Bonsai Empire

Bonsai are known for their small size. But Mame Bonsai (up to 4' or 10cm) take the quest for miniaturization one step further. Mame and pottery artist Haruyosi ...

www.bonsaiempire.com

 

[Attmos]

Shito is the smallest. 2-4 inches tall. Tiny pots. No room for any errors watering or pruning. I’ve seen a few in person. Wouldn’t want to be responsible for watering them. They dry out an hour or soon after they’re watered

Would NEVER actually have one.

Mini and Mame Bonsai - Bonsai Empire

Bonsai are known for their small size. But Mame Bonsai (up to 4' or 10cm) take the quest for miniaturization one step further. Mame and pottery artist Haruyosi ...

www.bonsaiempire.com

Sounds unsustainable to me too and I don't think I'd enjoy a project like that. lol
I just actually read that particular Bonsai Empire article. I like Bonsai Empire, lots of really good information.
Much as I like Bonsai Empire, I like hearing from the experienced people here too. These are accessible opinions from which I could possibly gain more detailed information than what's said in Bonsai Empire.

Shito- Not sustainable.

 

[Russ1]

If you keep them on a tray filled with sand they will send roots into the damp sand and it's not as bad as you would think.
I've been playing with a few in pots, maybe an inch or so. This year I left them in my Greenhouse were it was running over 100-116 deg and only had to water twice, once in the late morning and again late afternoon. One is a Juniper, a Primo Arborvitae and in about 2.5 inch pots a couple Brazilian Rain Trees.

 

[Attmos]

If you keep them on a tray filled with sand they will send roots into the damp sand and it's not as bad as you would think.
I've been playing with a few in pots, maybe an inch or so. This year I left them in my Greenhouse were it was running over 100-116 deg and only had to water twice, once in the late morning and again late afternoon. One is a Juniper, a Primo Arborvitae and in about 2.5 inch pots a couple Brazilian Rain Trees.

That's a good idea. Maybe have a "plant stand" for it that provides hidden space for roots to expand. If there's a screen separating the pot from the stand, it would make an easy point at which to cut the roots cleanly for the root pruning that they say needs to happen often.

Something like this but a little larger. Sand being stored in what looks to be just a tabletop.

 

[Russ1]

I just cut the roots in spring once and they are fine. Not sure how the screen would work out since the roots would be very small when they start but can get much bigger than the holes in the screen. Also the surface of the sand can tend to get algae growth on it so you need to replace at least the surface now and then so it looks neat. Maybe a layer of fine lava on top may help, still experimenting.

 

[leatherback]

the more space you give the roots, the faster the plant grows. Double edged sword.
In the end, all bonsai outgrow they size class.

 

[Attmos]

I just cut the roots in spring once and they are fine. Not sure how the screen would work out since the roots would be very small when they start but can get much bigger than the holes in the screen. Also the surface of the sand can tend to get algae growth on it so you need to replace at least the surface now and then so it looks neat. Maybe a layer of fine lava on top may help, still experimenting.

OK... My thinking on the screen. The tiny pot holds the root ball and as many feeder roots as is possible.

With a large opening in the bottom of the tiny pot and a screen/wire mesh/wire grid/ attached..... to hold in the substrate and wire the root-ball in place.... eventually roots will grow through the screen/wire mesh/wire grid/ into the sand below it, just as you described.

All I'm suggesting is that you hide a little extra room for root growth in a pot-stand. The screen would just make a convenient way to separate the pot from stand when root pruning needed to be done.

I dunno.. I wish I could explain better. lol

 

[Attmos]

the more space you give the roots, the faster the plant grows. Double edged sword.
In the end, all bonsai outgrow they size class.

That's a good point.

 

[Attmos]

the more space you give the roots, the faster the plant grows. Double edged sword.
In the end, all bonsai outgrow they size class.

So... Grow the tree first, then reduce the size......

It all makes sense of course, but I have a curious mind. lol

 

[blackadam]

alternative approach - cutting and layering mentioned
also less time for development than bonsai

But if you cut a half inch diameter trunk

lot of those mini-mini trees trunks looks thicker than that

They dry out an hour or soon after they’re watered

wonder if some mini greenhouse combined eventually with humidity tray wouldnt help with watering issues

 

[Michigan Tree Murderer]

 

[WNC Bonsai]

There are some excellent resources on YouTube. Check out Bonsaify for videos by Eric Schraeder and BonsaiQ for videos by Mrs Ohno.

 

[Russ1]

wonder if some mini greenhouse combined eventually with humidity tray wouldnt help with watering issues

A humidity tray would definitely help, that is the main purpose of using a tray with sand aside from allowing the roots to escape into the sand.

 

[jeremy_norbury]

A humidity tray would definitely help, that is the main purpose of using a tray with sand aside from allowing the roots to escape into the sand.

Exactly. I've got several trees, 1-2 decades in training which are this tiny size. Humidity trays are the way to go...

 

[oranjeaap]

I have one of these, (but slightly bigger than the one in the picture):



It's about 15cm tall before the slanted roof starts so should easily fit a 10cm tall tree.
Been planning for a while to put a tiny tree in there but I dont have anything suitable at the moment.
They're super cheap, that's probably also the biggest downside: they're made cheaply in China so they're a bit leaky, if you want to keep one inside you need to keep it on a surface that can handle some water or put it on a tray.

 

[Shibui]

Many years ago I saw a Ficus planted in a human molar (tooth) Not sure how long that tree survived but if anything can live in such a tiny container it would be a Ficus.

This year I attended Bonsai By the Harbour in Sydney where Ray Nesci showed some of his tiny bonsai. Some were long term. others not so much. He has a beautiful mini geranium around 1" tall in a tiny pot along with slightly larger Ficus, Maples, junipers, etc.
As mentioned, the trick is to be able to keep the roots hydrated. Gravel trays work well for smallest bonsai here.

 

[Attmos]

Many years ago I saw a Ficus planted in a human molar (tooth) Not sure how long that tree survived but if anything can live in such a tiny container it would be a Ficus.

This year I attended Bonsai By the Harbour in Sydney where Ray Nesci showed some of his tiny bonsai. Some were long term. others not so much. He has a beautiful mini geranium around 1" tall in a tiny pot along with slightly larger Ficus, Maples, junipers, etc.
As mentioned, the trick is to be able to keep the roots hydrated. Gravel trays work well for smallest bonsai here.

A freaking MOLAR....? lol damn..

 

[vesper818]

Makoto Zenpukuji is a master at the tiniest bonsai...

善福寺まこと / Makoto Zenpukuji

20代より樹を育て、勘違いから盆栽の世界へ。 2009年より「いつか盆栽 風日記」。 2010年より日本小品盆栽協会東京支部入会。 協会常任理事から6年間の東京支部長を経て現在は豆盆栽鉢を製作・販売中。 鉢作りは、作陶を始めた地名をいただき雅号を「善福寺」とし、落款はそれ以外に「言」とも書く。

youtube.com

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

The issue with rapid desiccation, dehydration, is not unique to the smallest bonsai. Any time the pot size (and this implies root mass) relative to the mass of foliage a tree is supporting becomes unbalanced, desiccation is a serious risk. A meter tall juniper in a very shallow pot, may also dry out just as quickly as a bean size Ficus. If you can only water once a day, you need to use larger pots, and allow larger soil media masses than if you had reliable 3 times a day watering service. Emphasis on reliable. For most of us this is a hobby, so we need to use larger pots relative to the small size of the tree to "buy time" to allow the tree to survive our ability to keep up a watering frequency. Once a day is my personal maximum. I increase the pot size for any tree that seems to dry out too quickly.

Some trees, like azalea and maples are pretty sensitive to a hard drying out. Drying out is fatal. One alternate approach is to work with species that tolerate drying out between watering. Here various desert shrubs and arid region species are advantageous. Most drought adapted species have some adaptations that pose challenges for bonsai, for example, pachycaul species (some trees, some shrubs) have a layer of spongy water storing tissue under their bark. This expands and contracts with moisture levels. This causes bark to exfoliate, an attractive feature in most, but creates issues when trying to shape by wiring. These are "best" as clip and grow. Some pachycaul species worth looking into are Bursera, Boswellia and Commiphora. Bursera is the source of copal resin, Boswellia is the source of frankincense resin and Commiphora is the source of myrrh. I have experience only with Bursera, and I find the fragrance delightful when working with it, repotting or pruning.

If kept cool and dry a Bursera with a one inch diameter base can go 4 months without water. They will drop their leaves during dry spells. If kept warm, above 60 F, (+15 C) and watered regularly they will grow fairly fast and keep their leaves. Bursera are opportunistic, they grow with heat and water, regardless of astronomical season.