Weakened neagari Satsuki

[baron]

I'm honestly at a loss for words.. Those roots have a very odd color going upwards.
Has anything been done do them? Where they like this before the treatments?

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Hmm… circling back to see how things are going…..

Great Job @bwaynef ! I’m looking forward to seeing the final product.

Just a couple observations before my doctor directed mandatory rest period… The ideas put forward were all about saving the tree by revitalizing the roots et al to invigorate the tree and promote new root growth for eventual redesign and reworking the apex and rest of the tree… not to save the dying apex. That would be cool, yet very uncommon at this stage. If OP chooses to keep trying… his tree.

If I recall everyone was is concert something had to be done to treat the roots. @Mellow Mullet suggested one treatment, I another. Again OP’s tree and he did say he wasn’t done working yet.

As far as the worthiness of books written by a highly respected Japanese master, President of the Satsuki Assn for many years, over 70 years in the satsuki business, who has trained many of the best satsuki folks including Gondo through Garcia… hmm…. ??

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Sending Positive Vibes to Demeter / Ceres for a speedy satsuki recovery!

cheers
DSD sends

 

[penumbra]

Don't know if this will be of any use, but I have 5 Haru no Hibiki I got about two months ago. I re-potted 2. One of the two started decline and I figured it was a root problem. I drenched the potted plant in peroxide / water 50%/50%. It stopped dying back and is pushing new leaves.

 

[bwaynef]

I know exactly what will happen if I cut the branch off. I know the likelihood that it will be a different result is less than Rich Strike's odds if I DON'T take it off, but I figure the penalty for keeping the branch is pretty minimal for the however-unlikely payoff.

@Mellow Mullet, I'm not sure what prompted your comment about not trying to be pessimist. I appreciate your input as I think it ultimately led me to the issue.
@Deep Sea Diver Thanks for your input and followups. Hope your recovery goes well.
@penumbra I'll keep the peroxide idea in mind. I may alternate among a few treatments.

I mixed up a batch of Phyton27 since it was closer at hand than the Zerotol I'd mentioned yesterday and proceeded to drench this azalea. I also moved it to a shady but fairly open location to spend the next few weeks. All the foliage that remains is coming off a single branch off the trunk and its as healthy as I'd expect any satsuki growth to be right now. Here's hoping I've stemmed the tide (what does that mean exactly) and that I'll get some lucky growth to develop this into something eventually.

 

[Carol 83]

I know exactly what will happen if I cut the branch off. I know the likelihood that it will be a different result is less than Rich Strike's odds if I DON'T take it off, but I figure the penalty for keeping the branch is pretty minimal for the however-unlikely payoff.

@Mellow Mullet, I'm not sure what prompted your comment about not trying to be pessimist. I appreciate your input as I think it ultimately led me to the issue.
@Deep Sea Diver Thanks for your input and followups. Hope your recovery goes well.
@penumbra I'll keep the peroxide idea in mind. I may alternate among a few treatments.

I mixed up a batch of Phyton27 since it was closer at hand than the Zerotol I'd mentioned yesterday and proceeded to drench this azalea. I also moved it to a shady but fairly open location to spend the next few weeks. All the foliage that remains is coming off a single branch off the trunk and its as healthy as I'd expect any satsuki growth to be right now. Here's hoping I've stemmed the tide (what does that mean exactly) and that I'll get some lucky growth to develop this into something eventually.

Best of luck, hope it pulls through for you.

 

[Mellow Mullet]

I know exactly what will happen if I cut the branch off. I know the likelihood that it will be a different result is less than Rich Strike's odds if I DON'T take it off, but I figure the penalty for keeping the branch is pretty minimal for the however-unlikely payoff.

@Mellow Mullet, I'm not sure what prompted your comment about not trying to be pessimist. I appreciate your input as I think it ultimately led me to the issue.
@Deep Sea Diver Thanks for your input and followups. Hope your recovery goes well.
@penumbra I'll keep the peroxide idea in mind. I may alternate among a few treatments.

I mixed up a batch of Phyton27 since it was closer at hand than the Zerotol I'd mentioned yesterday and proceeded to drench this azalea. I also moved it to a shady but fairly open location to spend the next few weeks. All the foliage that remains is coming off a single branch off the trunk and its as healthy as I'd expect any satsuki growth to be right now. Here's hoping I've stemmed the tide (what does that mean exactly) and that I'll get some lucky growth to develop this into something eventually.

Perhaps pessimist was the wrong word?

Pessimistic - tending to see the worst aspect of things or believe that the worst will happen.

Everyone was telling you things to do to save it, I was was telling you it was most likely a goner. I was being pessimistic.

The python will help if it is not too late. Good job so far.

John

 

[shinmai]

I’m going to take a contrarian position, which you may take or leave as you see fit.

Wrapping the exposed roots and filling in with kanuma will not accomplish anything. Once your neagari lignify, you should regard them as trunks, not roots. It is a virtual certainty that your problem lies under the soil surface in the pot, and the neagari don’t have feeder roots until you get below the soil surface.. A re-pot now is the only thing that will save the tree. I say now even though you would normally do so in March, because this is an exceptional situation. Satsuki will not grow new roots in soil that contains dead roots. From the photos, it looks like you are potted into small particle kanuma which is probably staying too wet, leading to weak and dying roots. This progression will continue until the tree dies unless you take drastic action.

I would advise removing all the small particles from the root mass, and cutting away any black or gray roots. If you cut any roots larger than an eighth of an inch, seal them with cut paste. Use larger [medium] particles, which will stay drier and provide better oxygenation. Do not water as you normally would; rather, water only until the first drops drain through. Add foliar watering to your regimen at least once daily, more often when hot, but your problem is very likely from too much constant water retention. You need to [a] let the root mass dry to a more optimal level, and make the tree create new roots to find water. Continue the controlled water regimen for at least a month, and do not fertilize until fall.

Treatment with fungicide or a peroxide will likely stop further progress of a fungal infection, but the tree simply will not grow new roots in places where there are dead ones. The dead roots need to be cut away, and the soil replaced.

Again, my two cents. Whatever you do , best of luck.

 

[shinmai]

No idea where the bold typeface came from.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

@shinmai has a good point, forecasting the possibility of extensive root rot. Especially considering other BNer’s reporting fungal issues in their potted azaleas.

If OP wishes to investigate, he could use a product like Glad wrap tightly wrapped on negari to stabilize. After all it’s what many folks do to build negarI from the onset.

No soil war here. I have tested 90/10 and 90/5. Kanuma/pumice as a media extensively. Presently we have a group of over 50 2-5 yoa azaleas and another group of over 50 5-15 yoa azaleas (and one over 50 yoa) in this media for 4 years running in rainy PacNW, known for fungul issues. No issues.



We do use standard PacNW rainy weather protocol here. Pots or entire tables chocked up. 4 side holes drilled in all pots if not already present. Likely these are used in the rainy south too?

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

I have a neagari ‘Korin’
Satsuki azalea. When it came to me it’d already lost an upper branch. It lost another last year. Here it is this year and looks like another branch is gone. I’ve taken a bit of advice from Peter Warren and wrapped a rag around this branch and trying to keep it moistened. I also moved it to more shade, under one of my benches.

Has anyone dealt with a declining Satsuki and been able to turn it around? PW mentions that it’s difficult to do.

It’s just bloomed so I’m not against repotting it, though it was repotted two years ago into straight kanuma.

Since these photos the weak branch has browned even more.

Whatever happened to your Korin?

Best
DSD sends

 

[bwaynef]

#shegone

It continued to weaken, until it didn't weaken anymore.