Virginia Creeper – Parthenocissus quinquefolia Bonsai Fall Color

[Lost2301]

International Bonsai Master Larry Jackel and the Denver Botanic Gardens Parthenocissus quinquefolia – Virginia Creeper Bonsai turning heads with its fall colors just starting to turn red. Look at that moss and pot. What a great combination all three elements make.

 

[Soup Dragon]

I have one of those, and I love the trunk that has formed, but the internodes on the branches are so long that I can't build any credible branches at all. Is there a trick that I should know about?

 

[hinmo24t]

I have one of those, and I love the trunk that has formed, but the internodes on the branches are so long that I can't build any credible branches at all. Is there a trick that I should know about?

cut the branches back and hope for a bud

 

[Soup Dragon]

cut the branches back and hope for a bud

Thanks. That's what I do, but the new shoots have long internodes as well. It looks like the tree in the photo is the same, so maybe there isn't any way to shorten them.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

cut the branches back and hope for a bud

Or you could spray it with Roundup, light it on fire, stomp on it, and run it over with your lawnmower a few times. That slows them down... slightly.

Joking aside, when young and weak their leaves are much smaller and internodes are much shorter. I have never worked with this plant, however I would start by doing all I could to keep it weak - included crowding the roots in a small pot, pinching growing tips, and defoliating when the plant starts to get too strong. I would also make sure I used low nitrogen fertilizers.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

@Lost2301 - I have a lot of respect for Mr. Jackel, especially his Ponderosa pine work. But this Virginia creeper, Parthenocissus, has a magnificent trunk for the species, the style of the trunk & branches combined, simply are not a good match for that pot. Color of the pot is fine. That shape a pot is really best for cascades. This Parthenocissus was not allowed to cascade, so the tangled upright growth simply does not go well with the pot. And the trunk is largely obscured by the foliage. I have seen other photos of this tree from other years, and it has looked better in the past. In the past it was allowed to cascade, or wired to cascade. Its current state looks like what happens to many "public collection" bonsai. They grow out of their styles, and since the original owner is no longer in control of what happens to the tree, they get neglected, and allowed to continue to grow out of their original style, and slowly deteriorate. I do not know if Larry has control over how this specimen looks, or if the Denver Botanic Garden has someone else in charge of the bonsai. So I don't "blame" anyone, but this tree is not at its historic best.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Growing Parthenocissus is usually pretty easy. They are almost bullet proof. You let them grow out, often to 8 foot long or longer running vines, leave the vines long if you are wintering them outdoors with minimal protection. Then in spring, once you see "life" prune them back hard, to just an inch or so extension on each branch. Then let grow, prune back once or twice more during early half of summer. Then let grow out through autumn. Wire to shape pretty much any time of year. Even though one lets them grow out to great lengths every year, the cut back is severe, so each year you really only add one or two internodes worth of length, or just an inch or two to the overall "permanent" part of the tree.

 

[Soup Dragon]

Joking aside, when young and weak their leaves are much smaller and internodes are much shorter. I have never worked with this plant, however I would start by doing all I could to keep it weak - included crowding the roots in a small pot, pinching growing tips, and defoliating when the plant starts to get too strong. I would also make sure I used low nitrogen fertilizers.

That's really helpful advice. Pretty much the opposite of what I've been doing. Many thanks.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

That's really helpful advice. Pretty much the opposite of what I've been doing. Many thanks.

That is what I would try... but I have never worked with the plant as bonsai. I just have a ton of it growing in my landscape. I have chopped it, stomped on it, sprayed it, etc, and have been able to see the effects. FWIW roundup does kill it, so don't do that

@Leo in N E Illinois has actual experience working with the plant as bonsai, so I would certainly lead with that.

 

[Soup Dragon]

Growing Parthenocissus is usually pretty easy. They are almost bullet proof. You let them grow out, often to 8 foot long or longer running vines, leave the vines long if you are wintering them outdoors with minimal protection. Then in spring, once you see "life" prune them back hard, to just an inch or so extension on each branch. Then let grow, prune back once or twice more during early half of summer. Then let grow out through autumn. Wire to shape pretty much any time of year. Even though one lets them grow out to great lengths every year, the cut back is severe, so each year you really only add one or two internodes worth of length, or just an inch or two to the overall "permanent" part of the tree.

Many thanks for this detailed advice. My problem though is that if I cut back to one inch then I would be cutting before the first internode, so I would never get any progress. If I combine this with Bonsai Nut's additional advice above about keeping it weak then I might start getting somewhere.

I case anyone is interested, here's a picture:



Thanks again.

 

[Lost2301]

@Lost2301 - I have a lot of respect for Mr. Jackel, especially his Ponderosa pine work. But this Virginia creeper, Parthenocissus, has a magnificent trunk for the species, the style of the trunk & branches combined, simply are not a good match for that pot. Color of the pot is fine. That shape a pot is really best for cascades. This Parthenocissus was not allowed to cascade, so the tangled upright growth simply does not go well with the pot. And the trunk is largely obscured by the foliage. I have seen other photos of this tree from other years, and it has looked better in the past. In the past it was allowed to cascade, or wired to cascade. Its current state looks like what happens to many "public collection" bonsai. They grow out of their styles, and since the original owner is no longer in control of what happens to the tree, they get neglected, and allowed to continue to grow out of their original style, and slowly deteriorate. I do not know if Larry has control over how this specimen looks, or if the Denver Botanic Garden has someone else in charge of the bonsai. So I don't "blame" anyone, but this tree is not at its historic best.

You make some really good points. The pot selection was made on the tree being a cascade, but as you stated the tree is not in a cascade style in this photo. Perhaps next year? The foliage is covering up the trunk as you stated to. In defense of Larry he just put the tree on the stand a few minutes before I took the photo. There was a 7 day show in the Pavilion and Larry and friends were just putting the Gardens trees back out for display. He really did not spend any time at all making this tree look its best as he had to get the rest of trees put out before darkness set in. Larry is in charge of the Bonsai garden and has full control over all the trees. It is hard to let the tree grow out where the tree is being kept when not being on display. The vining nature of the tree would be growing into and over the other trees in the collection. So that would not be good. I think the only way to let this tree grow out and cascade would be to elevate the tree over the others so that it can cascade without interfering with other trees in the collection. I have a couple of idea that might work or might not work. I agree with you the tree looked better last year then this year. No fruit on it this year. The photos from last year had runners on them, which pulled the branches down do to the weight of the runners which helped with the cascade look. No runners this year to help bring the branches down. By the way I just learned that Japanese Beetles love Virginia Creepers down at the show. So I basically agree with you.

 

[Lost2301]

Many thanks for this detailed advice. My problem though is that if I cut back to one inch then I would be cutting before the first internode, so I would never get any progress. If I combine this with Bonsai Nut's additional advice above about keeping it weak then I might start getting somewhere.

I case anyone is interested, here's a picture:

View attachment 331894

Thanks again.

I actually like your tree as is. But, if you want larger branches etc. you will have to let the tree grow all summer with out cutting it back. Cut back in the spring when just starting to bud out and then build your branches as appropriate for what you want. The Gardens tree posted early was allowed to grow unchecked each summer and cut back to develop branches. That tree was growing in a 15 gallon plastic pot for most of its life which helped with the large trunk/branches.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Many thanks for this detailed advice. My problem though is that if I cut back to one inch then I would be cutting before the first internode, so I would never get any progress. If I combine this with Bonsai Nut's additional advice above about keeping it weak then I might start getting somewhere.

I case anyone is interested, here's a picture:

View attachment 331894

Thanks again.

The cut back should allow you keeping at least one new internode, so if your internodes are long, you do keep one. You need to add each year, but keep the amount added to only one or two internodes, whatever length that works out to be. Cut back in spring, let grow out all year. It is not an exact science. Depending on how rapid the spring growth is, you might cut back only once in a growing season, or a couple times, if you are getting rampant growth.

 

[Forsoothe!]

Once you have it growing on small roots, just lop off the big leaves and they grow new ones. This pot is 1" square.

 

[Soup Dragon]

The cut back should allow you keeping at least one new internode, so if your internodes are long, you do keep one. You need to add each year, but keep the amount added to only one or two internodes, whatever length that works out to be. Cut back in spring, let grow out all year. It is not an exact science. Depending on how rapid the spring growth is, you might cut back only once in a growing season, or a couple times, if you are getting rampant growth.

Got it. Thank you!

 

[Soup Dragon]

I actually like your tree as is. But, if you want larger branches etc. you will have to let the tree grow all summer with out cutting it back. Cut back in the spring when just starting to bud out and then build your branches as appropriate for what you want. The Gardens tree posted early was allowed to grow unchecked each summer and cut back to develop branches. That tree was growing in a 15 gallon plastic pot for most of its life which helped with the large trunk/branches.

Sounds good. Thanks for the advice.