Twisty JBP - Game plan

[Hartinez]

Hey all. This is my first JBP. Bought it in San Diego of all places this last fall. It was only 25 bucks. I love the twist the propagater put in the tree and think it can make an excellent shohin in 5-10 years. Clearly it needs several years to grow before i start undertaking any major refinement techniques, but I want to make sure I’m taking proper steps for its development until I reach that point. I’m attaching 2 pics. One marked up with my game plan, the other with no marks and what i would see as the front/back, back/front. Please advise and let me know if my plan is sound for this season and beyond.

-The red lines represent what I was thinking of cutting come spring. The tree is basically a whorl of branches at the moment and I dont want that whorl to become reverse taper.
-The green branches are what I would keep as long term tree structure and what I would think would be trimmed back each year to maintain a small tree. Am I right about this?
-the royal blue branch would be my sacrifice to increase vigor and trunk thickness. I would leave this branch to grow unimpeded for several years, but how long?
-The light blue lines are what I am hoping for in terms of back budding for future branching.
-Since the tree came from a warmer climate, I decided to over winter in my garage this first season, but I’m hoping to keep it out in winter year after year mulched in.
-Its planted in a 4” nursery container, but I plan on up potting to this 7” terracotta bulb pot in mostly pumice with some akadama and lava.
-Its presenting as very healthy, so the plan would be to cut the unwanted branches, and repot both this spring.

Please advise! Thanks!

 

[Dav4]

I like your plan. When I'm contemplating stock like this, I basically do what you're doing, identifying future keeper and sacrifice branches. Keeper branches should generally be in a good position for the final design and have needles closer to the trunk if possible. Sacrifice branches should be at the top/pointing upwards and, in a perfect world, not leave a scar when removed finally. Fwiw, I've found chop scars on JBP tend to really blend in over time. I'd go ahead and do some judicious needle plucking of both the sacrifice and keeper branches (mainly the bottom portion), then wire it out. When you re-pot, make sure the tree leaves the soil at an angle. Neat little tree...

 

[Hartinez]

I like your plan. When I'm contemplating stock like this, I basically do what you're doing, identifying future keeper and sacrifice branches. Keeper branches should generally be in a good position for the final design and have needles closer to the trunk if possible. Sacrifice branches should be at the top/pointing upwards and, in a perfect world, not leave a scar when removed finally. Fwiw, I've found chop scars on JBP tend to really blend in over time. I'd go ahead and do some judicious needle plucking of both the sacrifice and keeper branches (mainly the bottom portion), then wire it out. When you re-pot, make sure the tree leaves the soil at an angle. Neat little tree...

Thanks Dave. How aggressive would you be at repot? Full BR? Half BR? Just a slight raking?

Also. The branch’s I plan on incorporating into my final design. Do I want to trim those candles at the end of the growing season to induce backbudding? Or by just keeping the tree vigorous should I expect some back budding? I figure the sacrifice backbudding is not my concern and in fact should I probably be rubbing off any buds that form along the length of that sacrifice keeping all growth at the tips?

 

[Dav4]

Thanks Dave. How aggressive would you be at repot? Full BR? Half BR? Just a slight raking?

Also. The branch’s I plan on incorporating into my final design. Do I want to trim those candles at the end of the growing season to induce backbudding? Or by just keeping the tree vigorous should I expect some back budding? I figure the sacrifice backbudding is not my concern and in fact should I probably be rubbing off any buds that form along the length of that sacrifice keeping all growth at the tips?

It looks like the tree is already in an akadama based soil? It really depends on the condition of the soil and roots. This one looks young and I wouldn't think you'll need a full on HBR. Hopefully it's got the beginnings of a solid root pad and you'll just have to rake the bottom and outside, assuming you're up-potting for further growth. I'd want the keeper branches to get wired for shape and have the bottom needles removed. If they grow vigorously this spring, I might de-candle them at the right time for your climate to get a 2nd flush. I'd remove about 50% of the lower needles from the sacrifice branch, then cut back to one leader later this summer. The goal is a strong leader that doesn't shade out the keeper branches.

 

[Hartinez]

It looks like the tree is already in an akadama based soil? It really depends on the condition of the soil and roots. This one looks young and I wouldn't think you'll need a full on HBR. Hopefully it's got the beginnings of a solid root pad and you'll just have to rake the bottom and outside, assuming you're up-potting for further growth. I'd want the keeper branches to get wired for shape and have the bottom needles removed. If they grow vigorously this spring, I might de-candle them at the right time for your climate to get a 2nd flush. I'd remove about 50% of the lower needles from the sacrifice branch, then cut back to one leader later this summer. The goal is a strong leader that doesn't shade out the keeper branches.

Thanks Dave

 

[Hartinez]

It looks like the tree is already in an akadama based soil? It really depends on the condition of the soil and roots. This one looks young and I wouldn't think you'll need a full on HBR. Hopefully it's got the beginnings of a solid root pad and you'll just have to rake the bottom and outside, assuming you're up-potting for further growth. I'd want the keeper branches to get wired for shape and have the bottom needles removed. If they grow vigorously this spring, I might de-candle them at the right time for your climate to get a 2nd flush. I'd remove about 50% of the lower needles from the sacrifice branch, then cut back to one leader later this summer. The goal is a strong leader that doesn't shade out the keeper branches.

When you say leader, you are referring to my long term trunk line yes? And not the sacrifice branch?

 

[Dav4]

When you say leader, you are referring to my long term trunk line yes? And not the sacrifice branch?

I’m referring to the sacrifice branch and reducing branching on it to just a single strong one.

 

[Adair M]

Thanks Dave. How aggressive would you be at repot? Full BR? Half BR? Just a slight raking?

Also. The branch’s I plan on incorporating into my final design. Do I want to trim those candles at the end of the growing season to induce backbudding? Or by just keeping the tree vigorous should I expect some back budding? I figure the sacrifice backbudding is not my concern and in fact should I probably be rubbing off any buds that form along the length of that sacrifice keeping all growth at the tips?

You only have to do an HBR when moving from ordinary potting soil or nursery soil into good bonsai soil the first time. If it’s already in good soil, no need to HBR.

 

[Colorado]

Looks like a good plan to me, Danny. I’m no JBP expert but have been growing one here in our climate for 3 years now. It has absolutely hulked out in a terra cotta bulb pan with 1:1:1 soil. I do protect it during the winter when it gets below 10F or so.

I think you will get plenty of back budding with the larger container, full sun, lots of fish and Biogold, and good watering. I find my JBP to utilize more water than our native pines.

Looking forward to what you do with this, it’s a super cool little tree!

 

[Hartinez]

Looks like a good plan to me, Danny. I’m no JBP expert but have been growing one here in our climate for 3 years now. It has absolutely hulked out in a terra cotta bulb pan with 1:1:1 soil. I do protect it during the winter when it gets below 10F or so.

I think you will get plenty of back budding with the larger container, full sun, lots of fish and Biogold, and good watering. I find my JBP to utilize more water than our native pines.

Looking forward to what you do with this, it’s a super cool little tree!

Thanks TJ. Only other pines I have are 1 mugo and those piñon I collected and no JBPs All handled a little differently. I appreciate the input bro! Ceramics are looking so good BTW!

 

[LuZiKui]

Looks like a good plan to me, Danny. I’m no JBP expert but have been growing one here in our climate for 3 years now. It has absolutely hulked out in a terra cotta bulb pan with 1:1:1 soil. I do protect it during the winter when it gets below 10F or so.

I think you will get plenty of back budding with the larger container, full sun, lots of fish and Biogold, and good watering. I find my JBP to utilize more water than our native pines.

Looking forward to what you do with this, it’s a super cool little tree!

What sort of schedule do you have for the biogold and fish emulsion on these plants? I’ve got a couple of similar JBP so I’d be interested to hear what you recommend.

 

[LuZiKui]

Cool looking JBP Hartinez! I’ve got a couple similar age, not as cool movement, so I’ll be following along to see how this turns out.

 

[Hartinez]

Hey @Brian Van Fleet here is the JBP I had mentioned. You can see the hooked needles. It’s on almost all of this years new growth.

it seems quite healthy otherwise.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

That’s odd. Likely it isn’t genetic since it just happened this year. Watch and see what it does next year. Maybe it’s just a response to conditions while those needles were forming.

 

[Hartinez]

That’s odd. Likely it isn’t genetic since it just happened this year. Watch and see what it does next year. Maybe it’s just a response to conditions while those needles were forming.

Your probably right. Considering it was grown from seed in San Diego, then driven to Abq it could have had a hand to play in its first years growth here. To be on the safe side, I overwintered it in the garage for its first season but plan on mulching it in outside this year. I’ll keep an eye on next years growth. Thanks!

 

[namnhi]

This tree has the needles to match the twisty trunk. Lol

 

[Hartinez]

This tree has the needles to match the twisty trunk. Lol

Haha. I wish that’s all it was. Hoping it’ll be in better shape next year

 

[LanceMac10]

.....hold on a sec.....

 

[LanceMac10]

It seems like the new needle get's caught in the sheath. I attributed it to vigorous growth. Have only seen it in years with warm spring nights.

Needles here (there), don't seem to show any fungal problems. Growth seems vigorous and long needles already.

Jbp grow big and bushy with lots of water in your climate, I figure, (hot day followed with a coolish night?)

Family went to North Carolina for a few weeks....lungs and liver, I apologize .......

All hands on deck for watering, it's in the 90's here!

 

[Hartinez]

I

It seems like the new needle get's caught in the sheath. I attributed it to vigorous growth. Have only seen it in years with warm spring nights.

Needles here (there), don't seem to show any fungal problems. Growth seems vigorous and long needles already.

Jbp grow big and bushy with lots of water in your climate, I figure, (hot day followed with a coolish night?)

Family went to North Carolina for a few weeks....lungs and liver, I apologize .......

All hands on deck for watering, it's in the 90's here!

interesting and good to know! It seems healthy for sure and it’s already got buds setting for next year.

rain forecasted for the next 3 days here after rain all last weekend. Unseasonably cool and rainy for us. After 70 days of no moisture! Trees are loving it.

I’m headed to Bozeman in August to watch Steel Pulse and Rebelution (reggae) with a crew of good buddies. I’m already apologizing to my body.