trunk splitting/widening opinion

[cpt]

I am looking to open up the base of a bloodgood maple. I have seen a variety of methods to split the base of trunks from root mass up, on variety of species, but I am looking for a more invasive process that doesn't involve a full split, more of a one directional forced wedge.

if lag bolts were screwed, form largest diameter, at root mass in a progression of decreasing diameter upward throughout the base of the trunk, in theory that would force the root mass to widen and gradually taper the base of the tree without completely splitting the trunk into 2 trunk sections



there are no pics of the specimen, this is just a discussion to determine if this is a provable process

 

[thumblessprimate1]

Japanese maples don't seem to be flexible enough for a wedge to penetrate a cut on only one side, and if you use lag bolts, wouldn't they be difficult to remove later?

 

[cpt]

Japanese maples don't seem to be flexible enough for a wedge to penetrate a cut on only one side, and if you use lag bolts, wouldn't they be difficult to remove later?

so your thinking that it may create a full split?

the potential tree is relatively young and small trunk diameter, and I don't have any experience with maples.

I cannot say for sure if they would difficult to remove, I have never done it. my guess is that no they wouldn't, a lag bolt is made of very strong material

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

What does the end result of "looking to open up the base" look like? A hollow, or a shortcut to thicken the trunk, or something else?

 

[thumblessprimate1]

For something like this, I think it's a good idea just to do it and find out. I just thought that as the maple grows it'll fill into the threading of the bolts making it difficult to remove. If I were to wedge something to hold the split open, it'd be wood or small stone. The maple would just grow over eventually covering the wound while enveloping the wedges. If it's a small maple, all these steps seem like a lot of work for some girth.

Brian asked a good question. Answering it would make things clearer. I had just assumed that you were wanting to thicken the trunk.

 

[cpt]

the end result would definitely be to create a hollowed base from one side, hence the undesired full split technique.

and at a later point the interior would be removed along with the lags to in a sense shortcut to increase girth but to create a cavity for future carving/hollow

 

[skrit]

Just a thought, but screws/bolts aren't usually 'wedge' shaped, as you may envision and have diagrammed. Instead, they usually finish their taper within just a few diameters of their point, and the majority of their length are a constant diameter. It is possible that the small diameter tree you refer to, that this wouldn't be an issue, but it could impact the effectiveness of this method. I have no comment on the potential success for the method you are suggesting, but from what I've read, splitting/wedging it much more common.

Note: there are some specialty screws with profiles more in line with your diagram, but they are relatively uncommon.

 

[cpt]

Just a thought, but screws/bolts aren't usually 'wedge' shaped, as you may envision and have diagrammed. Instead, they usually finish their taper within just a few diameters of their point, and the majority of their length are a constant diameter. It is possible that the small diameter tree you refer to, that this wouldn't be an issue, but it could impact the effectiveness of this method. I have no comment on the potential success for the method you are suggesting, but from what I've read, splitting/wedging it much more common.

Note: there are some specialty screws with profiles more in line with your diagram, but they are relatively uncommon.

I know what your saying and the diagram would be the most ideal of options but lag bolt have a relatively harsh angle taper compared to a standard wood screw

 

[thumblessprimate1]

A hollowed trunk. I think your idea is laborious for the task, and there are other means of getting a thick hollowed trunk more efficiently.

 

[cpt]

A hollowed trunk. I think your idea is laborious for the task, and there are other means of getting a thick hollowed trunk more efficiently.

please elaborate

 

[thumblessprimate1]

I think the idea involves a lot of effort and time because Japanese maples grow relatively slow. Other ideas that may give faster results include starting out with an already larger trunk and carving it out. Another idea is to buy seedlings or grow your own, fuse them to form a single large tapered trunk, and carve it.

This is all my opinion and hypothetical and not from my own experience. I think I have a good amount of patience to grow Japanese black pine from seed and develop into a future bonsai. I'm enjoying each step of it, but your idea of growing a small young 'Boodgood'' is going to take a lot more time and patience. If it's something you think you'll enjoy trying and have the patience to do, don't let me stop you.

 

[skrit]

I've been playing with the idea of a fused trunk tree. Perhaps using a false 'core' in the form of a hardwood (or other material, maybe LDPE) gently tapered/contoured cone in the center. Avoiding rot is of course a consideration for that project though. I have a couple hundred Japanese maple seeds collected from a neighborhood 'bloodgood' in the fridge stratifying. I suppose I'll just have to see what comes of them this next year.

 

[cpt]

ok, I appreciate that insight!

essentially the area im in seems to not offer any real bonsai quality stock, therefor I either have something shipped in or travel +4 hours to the larger cities around me and try my luck finding a suitable specimen, or obviously grow from seed.
I have opted to purchase cheap nursery stock from local garden centers and attempt to make alterations towards developing a small "tree" and possibly later a Bonsai. I have sought out a local bonsai group/club but did not have the time and resources to be as active of a member as they desired. SOOOO now I comb the interwebs researching and studying and reading and asking, it seems if its been thought of it has probably been attempted somewhere at some point, weather success of failure it all offer some valid information.

I am extremely new to bonsai practices and I am trying to develop some skill, vision, and patience, which will all be proven in time. so I do apprentice any information provided

 

[sorce]

I'd try it on a regular maple growing in your area first.
A nursery bloodgod big enough for this to work is not cheap !

If not predrilled, lags tear the s out of sapless wood.

To get the very base to "open", the roots would have to be out of the ground, or you will just make a hole. Which leads me to a vision of you, (in pink thongs) drill in hand, tree spinning at the end of it(the drill), throwing nursery soil all over......

I would......

Set the depth of a blade, saw, grinder, to 2\3 - 3\4 depth of your tree, and rip it from the bottom up. Then make some wood wedges to beat up into it from the bottom. Or from the side like yours screws. Cut off excess.
Repot. Let rot!

Sounds interesting! Shoot a video!

Sorce

 

[cpt]

so maybe I'll just be specific in my location as I will not find most deciduous trees available in this region. Grand Junction CO arid high desert area, although the CO river runs through it, there aren't many desirable species growing around the river. Invasive species Tamarisk/Salt Cedar, elm, cotton wood, and some kind of brush willow, and as for the rugged mountainous species there are some fir, pine, spruce, and a ton of oak brush, and even more mountain juniper.

the pink thongs aren't far off, just picture a night raid on my local golf course to harvest the +30 years old landscape maple growing just outside the lobby, OOOOooo they'll be pissed in the morning. HAHA

but seriously I would enjoy more to be in a region that offered most any available stock I could hope for, in this instance this is not the case.

also I hadn't planned on removing the tree from pot for another fey years. last year was a trunk chop and repot

 

[cpt]

an early morning shot after a light sprinkle

pretty young and straight and tall, hopefully with some time and work I can bring it closer to a bonsai state

 

[BrianBay9]

If I were in Grand Junction I'd be looking at collecting juniper, spruce, ponderosa pine, maybe from Grand Mesa Natl Forest. From the forest website it looks like the sell collecting permits (they call them transplant permits).

Brian

 

[cpt]

If I were in Grand Junction I'd be looking at collecting juniper, spruce, ponderosa pine, maybe from Grand Mesa Natl Forest. From the forest website it looks like the sell collecting permits (they call them transplant permits).

Brian

Yes they do and I have collected a few but certain living situations took a tole on a lot of what I was working on so yea sad story.

 

[Vance Wood]

Is it legal to collect from the Grand Mesa Natl Forest?

 

[cpt]

Is it legal to collect from the Grand Mesa Natl Forest?

$5 - $10 or more harvesting permit can be acquired form forest service for (transplant and Xmas tree collection)