Trunk chopping of bald cypress, early summer

[CrippyFreaky24]

Hey guys. First for context I am in PA. Bald cypresses are pretty tough trees from what I know, I was just wondering if one could be trunk chopped early summer/June? I found some at a nursery, and they both have buds growing on the bare part of the trunk, and one has a few branches of foliage on the actual lower trunk to where it would be chopped to. The branches have leaves on them but I don’t believe they are fully leafed out. Could a bald cypress with some of these sprouts be fully trunk chopped at this time or semi trunk chopped? I heard it’s better to chop to not completely the height you’ll want the tree to be, but to where there is still some foliage and branches on the tree. If I trunk chopped would that be in conjunction with root trimming or would that occur later on? I honestly don’t have much experience in bonsai or trunk chopping, so far I have a few, but I’d love to do a bald cypress. Any advice would be very helpful. Thank you guys.

 

[rockm]

Hey guys. First for context I am in PA. Bald cypresses are pretty tough trees from what I know, I was just wondering if one could be trunk chopped early summer/June? I found some at a nursery, and they both have buds growing on the bare part of the trunk, and one has a few branches of foliage on the actual lower trunk to where it would be chopped to. The branches have leaves on them but I don’t believe they are fully leafed out. Could a bald cypress with some of these sprouts be fully trunk chopped at this time or semi trunk chopped? I heard it’s better to chop to not completely the height you’ll want the tree to be, but to where there is still some foliage and branches on the tree. If I trunk chopped would that be in conjunction with root trimming or would that occur later on? I honestly don’t have much experience in bonsai or trunk chopping, so far I have a few, but I’d love to do a bald cypress. Any advice would be very helpful. Thank you guys.

Are you positive it's bald cypress? Dawn Redwood is often mistaken for BC and vice versa. Dawn redwood is more common at nurseries, particularly in the north...

BC and dawn redwood should be already fully leafed out. It's June. If they're not, something's up with them...

Would be OK to trunk chop and lightly reduce root mass now. Wouldn't do a huge root purge as it's getting too late for drastic root work. If I were you and this is a BC, I'd do the trunk chop and root prune, then plunk the tree and its pot into a tub of water for the summer. Would help it recover more quickly.

Chop six to seven inches above where you want the top of the final tree to be. That gives some room for new buds to develop as high as possible. The unwanted top portion can be cut off later as the tree develops.

 

[Cajunrider]

Are you positive it's bald cypress? Dawn Redwood is often mistaken for BC and vice versa. Dawn redwood is more common at nurseries, particularly in the north...

BC and dawn redwood should be already fully leafed out. It's June. If they're not, something's up with them...

Would be OK to trunk chop and lightly reduce root mass now. Wouldn't do a huge root purge as it's getting too late for drastic root work. If I were you and this is a BC, I'd do the trunk chop and root prune, then plunk the tree and its pot into a tub of water for the summer. Would help it recover more quickly.

Chop six to seven inches above where you want the top of the final tree to be. That gives some room for new buds to develop as high as possible. The unwanted top portion can be cut off later as the tree develops.

Agree!

 

[CrippyFreaky24]

Thanks for the advice. I am pretty sure that it is a bald cypress. The bark didn’t have much of a redness to it and the branches seemed to go straight outwards, not an upwards curve like a redwood. The place where the leaves aren’t fully grown yet is near the top of the trees. And even at that the leaves are still grown almost to their full size, as well as on the rest of the tree.

 

[Shibui]

Easy to tell the difference and it is not bark colour or branch shape. BC have alternate leaf pattern while Dawn redwood have opposite. If not sure post a clear picture of a leaf or stem with branches and someone will ID.
Accurate ID won't matter for the purposes of chopping anyway. Both species respond very similar to all bonsai techniques.

 

[CrippyFreaky24]

Today I got some photos of the tree and am picking it up at a later time. It’s hard to identify the leaves still as I didn’t get very close, there is a large swampy puddle area between the tree and the path that was too deep to step into. So the photos aren’t very good. I couldn’t tell very well if the leaf pattern was alternate or not.

 

[19Mateo83]

Alternate leaves…. It’s a BC

 

[Cajunrider]

Hey guys. First for context I am in PA. Bald cypresses are pretty tough trees from what I know, I was just wondering if one could be trunk chopped early summer/June? I found some at a nursery, and they both have buds growing on the bare part of the trunk, and one has a few branches of foliage on the actual lower trunk to where it would be chopped to. The branches have leaves on them but I don’t believe they are fully leafed out. Could a bald cypress with some of these sprouts be fully trunk chopped at this time or semi trunk chopped? I heard it’s better to chop to not completely the height you’ll want the tree to be, but to where there is still some foliage and branches on the tree. If I trunk chopped would that be in conjunction with root trimming or would that occur later on? I honestly don’t have much experience in bonsai or trunk chopping, so far I have a few, but I’d love to do a bald cypress. Any advice would be very helpful. Thank you guys.

Normally I would have no hesitation in chopping and root pruning simultaneously a bald cypress at this time of year. However, the tree looks to be in burlap sack and has been heeled in the ground for a while. My recommendation is to plant it in a big wide pot. The soil should be as shallow as the current burlap sack is because you don't want the roots to grow deeper. Water it well all through this year to let it recover. If the tree grows well, then you can chop and root prune next year at the optimum time in the spring. I know it is only early summer but think about it, the tree already has gone through a very major insult of being dug up, root pruned, placed in burlap sack, and has not gotten as much water as BC really wants. You only have a few months of growing left before Autumn comes. Let it grow let it grow let it grow.

 

[CrippyFreaky24]

Alright, thank you for the advice. I’ll have to see how big the burlap sack looks after it’s out of the ground. Is there any way I could stimulate the buds on the trunk to grow without trunk chopping? There are a lot of buds on the trunk that could help whenever it comes time for an actual trunk chop.

 

[Cajunrider]

Alright, thank you for the advice. I’ll have to see how big the burlap sack looks after it’s out of the ground. Is there any way I could stimulate the buds on the trunk to grow without trunk chopping? There are a lot of buds on the trunk that could help whenever it comes time for an actual trunk chop.

Why worry about stimulation of buds on the trunk now? The focus now should be on assessment of the health of the tree. Time to get the tree as healthy and full of energy as possible. When the time to chop the trunk comes, there will be plenty of buds. If you encourage the tree to expend the energy to grow buds now, that means there will be less of it when you chop the trunk. Bubs formed now will largely be removed when you chop the trunk. The energy expended by the tree to grow the shoots now will be for naught.

 

[Maiden69]

Here is my opinion... that tree was grown on land, meaning it has no significant buttress. Take it home, and either planted as is inside a bucket of water for the reminder of the growing season to get it strong and chop next spring. Or remove the bag, comb out the root ball without doing much coating to spread the roots outwards and plant in whatever soil you want inside a Root Pouch, or pot of your choice and place the pot inside a tub of water for the rest of the growing season. Fertilize heavily!

All that is right now is a stick on a sack (stick on a pot). You can do all the work you mentioned now, but the response of the tree will be meh, as it already pushed out the initial flush. Next year, when it is full of energy and you shop it down it will give you more than you can handle, so plenty of options to work with. BCs will build buttress faster when grown in water vs in the ground, unless you can provide them with enough water to encourage strong growth. I also would recommend you plant it in some inorganic media if planting in water to ease your root work once you decide to move it into a bonsai pot.

 

[CrippyFreaky24]

Alright thank you. I’ll focus on just letting the tree recover. I’ll focus on letting the tree get the energy it will need for a trunk chop. Once I have the tree I’ll plant it in a bucket of water in some gravel, and I’ll also add fertilizer to it.

 

[dbonsaiw]

What is the purpose of the bucket of water? I assume a finished BC would not be in a bucket and this is something that is used for developing the tree? Or perhaps it needs tons of water and will always be in a bucket? If it is simply to obtain the BC root buttress, I'm not sure I buy into this and would be kind of surprised if a wide buttress can ever be developed out of the ground. I need to find the article, but I was reading that the buttress is created by the roots growing to incredible lateral lengths, which is simply not possible in a pot.

 

[Cajunrider]

Alright thank you. I’ll focus on just letting the tree recover. I’ll focus on letting the tree get the energy it will need for a trunk chop. Once I have the tree I’ll plant it in a bucket of water in some gravel, and I’ll also add fertilizer to it.

I wouldn’t plant it in gravel. I prefer potting soil with high organic content. I would not dunk it either. I have slowly formed the practice of not dunking a BC unless I know for certain it is very healthy.

 

[Schmikah]

Alright thank you. I’ll focus on just letting the tree recover. I’ll focus on letting the tree get the energy it will need for a trunk chop. Once I have the tree I’ll plant it in a bucket of water in some gravel, and I’ll also add fertilizer to it.

I agree with not using gravel, you can use some organic or use something like pumice/lava rock or oil dry (from NAPA).

You might want to just leave the soil as is until next spring, other than just knocking off the outside and bottom layer while leaving the bulk, then just adding more soil in the pot to fill it.

I also agree with @Cajunrider. I wouldn't completely submerge it right now. BC are swamp trees, but that might be one too many shocks right now for old roots.

What I have done in the past after heavy work is using a tray under the pot that can collect water but is shallow enough to leave the top 75-80% of the soil column above water. New roots will grow out and find the water and give the tree a boost without giving it too much of a shock.

Next year you can probably completely submerge the roots on rotation. I have had good results from keeping it in a bucket for a few weeks then getting it back out for another few weeks/months, then repeat.

Also, just a side note if you do some trimming on the branches/stems this year or next year. You can get some pretty good results with getting cuttings to room on BC if you put the cuttings in soil then submerge that in water with just a couple of leaves left. I got about an 80% hit rate last year.

 

[Maiden69]

I'm not sure I buy into this and would be kind of surprised if a wide buttress can ever be developed out of the ground.

May 2021 before moving the nursery BC into a Root Pouch and a water bucket



2 years in a nursery pot June 2021




After 1 year in water





March 2021 Seedlings


August 2022







September 2022



The tree didn't survive the freezes this year... April 2023


Seedlings from 2021, compare this 2 full year BC's grown in Root Pouch and water against the BC in B&B above that is probably 5-6 years grown in ground... which one has greater bonsai potential?

 

[Srt8madness]

Those have nice taper, but that isn't buttressing.

 

[Maiden69]

That is buttressing, and on a 2 year old tree... imagine what it would look when moved into a larger bag in 10-20 years where most collected trees start to buttress.

 

[rockm]

There are a few terms that are getting confused here. Buttressing is not really the same as fluting on the trunk. Buttressing can have fluting--the ridges developed when dominant roots run long. Those roots become primary suppliers to the foliage mostly directly above them on the tree.

Developing fluting on a buttressed trunk is not easy, or even all that possible, when roots are constrained. That fluting swells the buttress in PARTICULAR LOCATIONS on the lower trunk, which makes produces deep vertical ridge and peaks on the lower trunk. The trees grown out in containers, here do have buttress to some extent, but no fluting, because dominant roots don't have anywhere to go to grow and produce any significant fluting.

Flute

flute: a vertical fold or groove in the stem of a tree. Although genetics may be responsible for fluting in trees, flutes might also result from environmental factors.

mgnv.org

 

[Maiden69]

@rockm the one posted above with the yellow marks was a single root that was able to escape out of the bag and ran around the bag itself inside the saucer full of water. I am going to artificially induce that same concept in the batch of seedlings I am developing now, just waiting for the "washers" to do their deed and choke the tap root to start developing the flare. More to follow Spring 2024...