Triple Trunk Trident Maple var. Miyasama

[SgtPilko]

Hey everyone,

I just picked up this trident recently (billed as variant Miyasama) and am getting to know it slowly. Quite a few flaws but been wanting to work on a trident maple for a while and it caught my eye for the chunky trunk (by the standards of my trees!). Thought it could be good to learn on. I feel as though the best base vs. flaws vs. view of all 3 trunks/movement contradict each other, so still deciding on a front. Any ideas out there? They are all different heights and widths but lack taper really. Any other triple-trunk conventions to be aware of? Maybe one of these needs to go? I sketched some potential cut lines on one image, I could potentially rewind this guy a bit, reduce the trunks and build again.

I have been reading all the great threads on Tridents and maple nebari development in general and will continue to do so but all advice welcome.

Thanks in advance, cheers folks!

 

[Shibui]

I also like the look of the tree as marked up in the final photo. It has the widest base and better lines in the trunk as well as hiding that over thick branch. I note it is still visible from the chosen front but I think that could be fixed with some pruning or carving to reduce the visible dead section or remove it altogether.
Not sure that it should be referred to as triple trunk though. The 'trunks' are a bit too high to be trunks IMHO so definitely style that low branch as a branch. I would consider making a not traditional branch though because there's almost nothing else on that side so consider a branch that is part trunk.
Next thought is to reduce the apex substantially. Seems to be no point having a really thick trunk then having an overly tall trunk that makes it look thinner. The branches on the upper left look like a good replacement apex plus a branch. Hopefully this rough virt will give you some idea of what I'm thinking.



I see you have marked possible layer points but I think those spots will not leave much to grow a bonsai from the base. I'd go up above the branches just above the marked layer. That should leave better growth on the base and should give a shorter trunk on the layered section. Hope the following virt shows that option.


There's always more options so don't take these ideas as the only possibility.

Always take photo based advice with a some grains of salt. We can't see all the nuances of the tree so often what looks good in a photo is not practical in real life.

Not sure how Miyasama responds to pruning or layering but I guess growth is slower so leaving larger scars may be counterproductive.

 

[SgtPilko]

I also like the look of the tree as marked up in the final photo. It has the widest base and better lines in the trunk as well as hiding that over thick branch. I note it is still visible from the chosen front but I think that could be fixed with some pruning or carving to reduce the visible dead section or remove it altogether.
Not sure that it should be referred to as triple trunk though. The 'trunks' are a bit too high to be trunks IMHO so definitely style that low branch as a branch. I would consider making a not traditional branch though because there's almost nothing else on that side so consider a branch that is part trunk.
Next thought is to reduce the apex substantially. Seems to be no point having a really thick trunk then having an overly tall trunk that makes it look thinner. The branches on the upper left look like a good replacement apex plus a branch. Hopefully this rough virt will give you some idea of what I'm thinking.
View attachment 419052


I see you have marked possible layer points but I think those spots will not leave much to grow a bonsai from the base. I'd go up above the branches just above the marked layer. That should leave better growth on the base and should give a shorter trunk on the layered section. Hope the following virt shows that option.
View attachment 419053

There's always more options so don't take these ideas as the only possibility.

Always take photo based advice with a some grains of salt. We can't see all the nuances of the tree so often what looks good in a photo is not practical in real life.

Not sure how Miyasama responds to pruning or layering but I guess growth is slower so leaving larger scars may be counterproductive.

Thanks Shibui for your ideas and guidance, much appreciated! Like it, and definite food for thought. Going to start with repot and nebari work this Spring, get to know it a bit better before committing to chops/layering. Thanks!

 

[SgtPilko]

I lied, no repot or root work happened at all! A couple of weeks back on the advice of my teacher we went straight to dealing with the crude "third trunk" that also had some dead bits. Couple of other thick bits taken off but no more chops, layering or bud selection for now, just healing, growing, feeding and reevaluate later in the season.

 

[SgtPilko]

Here is a less naked late spring update with foliage on! Needs a tidy up but i'm just letting it do its thing. Wound on the back seems to have started rolling in already.

 

[ibakey]

How’s the vigour on your miyasama? I have a small shohin sized miyasama and for me, the vigour is 10 times less than the normal trident. It doesn’t actively put out shoots. Even when it does, it stops after a few internodes.

 

[SgtPilko]

How’s the vigour on your miyasama? I have a small shohin sized miyasama and for me, the vigour is 10 times less than the normal trident. It doesn’t actively put out shoots. Even when it does, it stops after a few internodes.

I actually don't own a regular trident, I thought this one would be less vigorous but in my opinion it has grown really well, lots of extension (though not super long) and buds popping all over the trunk, not dissimilar to friends' regular tridents as far as I can tell!

 

[SgtPilko]

Hey folks, just in case someone is still watching next spring if I wanted to try grafting some new roots at repot, can I do that OK with regular trident material rather than Miyasama? Or will the potentially different growth rates cause issues? Thx!

 

[Maiden69]

I'm not sure if it is too late now, but I would suggest to make a few cuttings when you trim the tree back. That way you can use them for grafting. The bark on your tree looks rougher than the bark on my regular trident, so you may end up with some smoother sections once the scions start to grow. There's always a part of the grafts that show up when grafting for roots after you cut them off.

 

[Shibui]

Regular trident should be compatible with this var. Any slight difference in bark will probably not be noticed way down at the base of the trunk but if you are at all concerned about variation try the cuttings though I have difficulty with trident cuttings.

 

[Arlithrien]

So the Miyasama trident isnt a variety per se. The variety is Taiwanese trident Maple (var Formosana). Miyasama is a cultivar of the Taiwanese trident. For one thing, I can tell this is a Miyasama trident because its new growth is red rather than yellow/light green. It also appears to have tighter growing habit than my normal Taiwan trident. Took me a while to realize the distinction since this variety is still somewhat obscure.

 

[Maiden69]

So the Miyasama trident isnt a variety per se. The variety is Taiwanese trident Maple (var Formosana). Miyasama is a cultivar of the Taiwanese trident. For one thing, I can tell this is a Miyasama trident because its new growth is red rather than yellow/light green. It also appears to have tighter growing habit than my normal Taiwan trident. Took me a while to realize the distinction since this variety is still somewhat obscure.

The new growth on my regular trident is red, and it is not a miyasama. While miyasama is a Formosanum, the the leaves and growth pattern is very different from the Taiwanese trident. Leave lobes are rounded and the middle lobe protrudes more than in the var. and the growth is tighter which is why most nurseries sell them as Miyasama Yatsubusa.

 

[bwaynef]

...I have difficulty with trident cuttings.

I reduced some I had in the ground in late January about 2-3 weeks before leafing out and decided to stick those in a tub w/ bark & perlite (and composted manure). No special care. They'd rooted by summer. I have (considerably) more difficulty rooting tridents in-leaf.

re: new growth being red, my seedling tridents' new growth are all red.

 

[Arlithrien]

The new growth on my regular trident is red, and it is not a miyasama. While miyasama is a Formosanum, the the leaves and growth pattern is very different from the Taiwanese trident. Leave lobes are rounded and the middle lobe protrudes more than in the var. and the growth is tighter which is why most nurseries sell them as Miyasama Yatsubusa.

My formosanum was sold as a miyasama from kaede bonsai and not to doubt someone who is a master of kaede but the trident I received is distinctively different from the miyasama I've seen from others. Like I said it has yellow new growth rather than red, very vigorous, and the leaves are more duck-foot shaped rather than rounded like you said. It definitely doesn't have that yatsubusa tightness but I think with proper pruning one can achieve an attractive shingled effect.

 

[ibakey]

How’s the vigour on your miyasama? I have a small shohin sized miyasama and for me, the vigour is 10 times less than the normal trident. It doesn’t actively put out shoots. Even when it does, it stops after a few internodes.

Hi guys, I just wanted to come back and mention that my miyasama trident after 2 seasons with me have started to put out a lot of extensions and growth. I think it’s perhaps because I repotted it and gave it lots of fertilizers over the 2 years. It is as vigorous as my normal tridents, perhaps more because the stems of the miyasama are significantly thicker than the normal trident when extending.

 

[SgtPilko]

Mine got away from me last year and thickened up in all the wrong places! Strong growth at the apex and branch tips but not great back budding. Might have to airlayer something off to rescue it. Will get a picture and post up soon