Transitioning trees from warmer climate to colder climate?

[Greenpoint Vince]

Hey all,

Last winter I bought some trees from California. I live in NY - zone 7b. For the start of this last growing season in spring I left those trees in my winter storage until nights were above 50 to be safe. My questions is heading into this fall/winter. Can I allow those trees to get into the mid to high 40’s or is best wait an other year for them to acclimatize? Specifically Trident Maples, Acer Palmatum and JBP.

Thanks in advance for any and all advice.

 

[Dav4]

Hey all,

Last winter I bought some trees from California. I live in NY - zone 7b. For the start of this last growing season in spring I left those trees in my winter storage until nights were above 50 to be safe. My questions is heading into this fall/winter. Can I allow those trees to get into the mid to high 40’s or is best wait an other year for them to acclimatize? Specifically Trident Maples, Acer Palmatum and JBP.

Thanks in advance for any and all advice.

They'll sail through your typical winter with normal winter protection, regardless of provenance.

 

[hemmy]

Can I allow those trees to get into the mid to high 40’s or is best wait an other year for them to acclimatize? Specifically Trident Maples, Acer Palmatum and JBP.

All 3 of those varieties came with me from California 10a to Kansas 6a during a summer and experience frost and light freezes the first year. Especially, cool since they were grown from seed in 10a.

 

[Shibui]

If the species can cope with the cold then any individual should also be able to cope with the same cold. I don't think trees have any memory so they only react to what they feel, not what they had last year or the year before.
Acclimatization may be necessary when bringing a growing tree from one temperature range to another but as soon as they are dormant they are dormant and should not notice any extra cold.

 

[Greenpoint Vince]

They'll sail through your typical winter with normal winter protection, regardless of provenance.

With the wind at their back I hope

 

[Greenpoint Vince]

All 3 of those varieties came with me from California 10a to Kansas 6a during a summer and experience frost and light freezes the first year. Especially, cool since they were grown from seed in 10a.

Thanks bud

 

[Greenpoint Vince]

If the species can cope with the cold then any individual should also be able to cope with the same cold. I don't think trees have any memory so they only react to what they feel, not what they had last year or the year before.
Acclimatization may be necessary when bringing a growing tree from one temperature range to another but as soon as they are dormant they are dormant and should not notice any extra cold.

Makes sense - thanks!

 

[rockm]

As autumn approaches don't be afraid of initial frosts and freezes in Oct. Nov. and early Dec. Both are extremely important to establishing dormancy in your trees. I typically allow my trees to get hit with repeated frost and shallow freezes through the end of November before they're mulched into their overwintering quarters. Shallow freezes above 25 F when the following has temps over 40 or so, allowing thaw, aren't dangerous in the fall. They help set the final stage of dormancy reaction in trees. Don't be scared into trying to avoid them and moving trees into "warm" quarters.

The species you have are well capable of getting through winter in your new location.

 

[BrightsideB]

As autumn approaches don't be afraid of initial frosts and freezes in Oct. Nov. and early Dec. Both are extremely important to establishing dormancy in your trees. I typically allow my trees to get hit with repeated frost and shallow freezes through the end of November before they're mulched into their overwintering quarters. Shallow freezes above 25 F when the following has temps over 40 or so, allowing thaw, aren't dangerous in the fall. They help set the final stage of dormancy reaction in trees. Don't be scared into trying to avoid them and moving trees into "warm" quarters.

The species you have are well capable of getting through winter in your new location.

what kind of mulch do you use? Does it matter? Curious because I mulched some trees in once because we were getting some very cold weeks. I just used the brown mulch because I had some. I tend to think mulch made from conifers wouldn’t be as good.

 

[Jetson1950]

All 3 of those varieties came with me from California 10a to Kansas 6a during a summer and experience frost and light freezes the first year. Especially, cool since they were grown from seed in 10a.

Interesting you had Acer Palmatum growing in zone 10a. Were they thriving there? Seems they would not have been able to get their winter chill requirements and survive well in that climate. They must have been there a while to get by with minimum chill hours and still break dormancy. Which part of California?

 

[rockm]

what kind of mulch do you use? Does it matter? Curious because I mulched some trees in once because we were getting some very cold weeks. I just used the brown mulch because I had some. I tend to think mulch made from conifers wouldn’t be as good.

Shredded hardwood mulch works for me. Bark nuggets are of little use as it too much air space between the nuggets at least at first. Shredded stringy stuff is better.

 

[hemmy]

Interesting you had Acer Palmatum growing in zone 10a. Were they thriving there? Seems they would not have been able to get their winter chill requirements and survive well in that climate. They must have been there a while to get by with minimum chill hours and still break dormancy. Which part of California?

Coastal Ventura. I bought them as young, gallon saplings at a nursery in Camarillo. They appeared to be straight green variety, no grafts. They grew great and went through 4 dormancy “winters” before we moved. Post below, I believe they accumulated enough hours at temps below 45F and maybe 54F. Now there appear to be a few “Zone 9/10” marketed varieties.

Post in thread 'Japanese Maples Chill Hour Requirements'
https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/japanese-maples-chill-hour-requirements.43585/post-742599

 

[Jetson1950]

Coastal Ventura. I bought them as young, gallon saplings at a nursery in Camarillo. They appeared to be straight green variety, no grafts. They grew great and went through 4 dormancy “winters” before we moved. Post below, I believe they accumulated enough hours at temps below 45F and maybe 54F. Now there appear to be a few “Zone 9/10” marketed varieties.

Post in thread 'Japanese Maples Chill Hour Requirements'
https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/japanese-maples-chill-hour-requirements.43585/post-742599

Good read. I like it. I’ve been putting mine in the frig every winter and it does really good for them, but I’m running out of room. I know there is a bonsai nursery, D & L Nursery, about 40 miles north of me in the Ocala National Forest who has 20’ Acer Palmatum and Deshojo on his place and they look beautiful. Especially in the spring when the Deshojo are leafing out red. He says he may get 400-500 chile hours a year, but that’s iffy at best. He planted those trees 30 plus years ago and they have grown well.

Over the next few years I may experiment with some of mine to see how they grow without the winter frig routine. Hopefully they will gradually acclimate to less chill hours. I’ve been using 2000-2500 as what I shoot for. Thanks for the info. I don’t want to give up my Japanese maples and it sounds like I can reduce their need for long chill time. We don’t have to worry about heat time here. There is plenty of it.

Apologies to the Op for going off focus on your thread.

 

[Greenpoint Vince]

As autumn approaches don't be afraid of initial frosts and freezes in Oct. Nov. and early Dec. Both are extremely important to establishing dormancy in your trees. I typically allow my trees to get hit with repeated frost and shallow freezes through the end of November before they're mulched into their overwintering quarters. Shallow freezes above 25 F when the following has temps over 40 or so, allowing thaw, aren't dangerous in the fall. They help set the final stage of dormancy reaction in trees. Don't be scared into trying to avoid them and moving trees into "warm" quarters.

The species you have are well capable of getting through winter in your new location.

I usually do that with most of my trees. I get nervous with the trident maples but the rest for sure. Thanks!

 

[Dav4]

I usually do that with most of my trees. I get nervous with the trident maples but the rest for sure. Thanks!

I overwinter tridents and palmatums outside, with mulched pots, in zone 6a MI. They see temperatures below 0 F every winter without issue. For context, they spent over a decade in 7a GA before they were moved to MI in the late fall... worst time of year for a move north imo... but did just fine with the typical protection that was provided.

 

[rockm]

I usually do that with most of my trees. I get nervous with the trident maples but the rest for sure. Thanks!

I leave my tridents on the benches until the end of Nov. they freeze a few times. No issues in a couple of decades.

 

[Greenpoint Vince]

I overwinter tridents and palmatums outside, with mulched pots, in zone 6a MI. They see temperatures below 0 F every winter without issue. For context, they spent over a decade in 7a GA before they were moved to MI in the late fall... worst time of year for a move north imo... but did just fine with the typical protection that was provided.

Oh wow! Great - thanks for the info!

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I moved from SoCal to NC, and all my non-tropicals I left out on the benches here in NC. After five winters I can say that none of my conifers minded the move in the slightest (JBP, JWP, JRP, Hinoki cypress, junipers, spruce, etc). Of my sub-tropicals, my olives didn't mind the cold, but the cork oaks got a little sensitive once temps dropped below 20F. Princess persimmons were fine. Chinese elms, English elms, American elms, Korean hornbeams were fine.

I wasn't able to keep JM in SoCal (too warm). But now I own quite a few - as well as trident maples - and they stay outside without any protection. And of course any trees native to the area stay outside as well (sugar maples, red maples, beeches, oaks, etc)

 

[Greenpoint Vince]

I leave my tridents on the benches until the end of Nov. they freeze a few times. No issues in a couple of decades.

Amazing _ thanks!

 

[Greenpoint Vince]

I moved from SoCal to NC, and all my non-tropicals I left out on the benches here in NC. After five winters I can say that none of my conifers minded the move in the slightest (JBP, JWP, JRP, Hinoki cypress, junipers, spruce, etc). Of my sub-tropicals, my olives didn't mind the cold, but the cork oaks got a little sensitive once temps dropped below 20F. Princess persimmons were fine. Chinese elms, Korean hornbeams were fine.

I wasn't able to keep JM in SoCal (too warm). But now I own quite a few - as well as trident maples - and they stay outside without any protection.

Ok thanks so much!