Too late to get this JM in better soil?

The Warm Canuck

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Just bought this Japanese Maple 'seiryu'. Its obviously grafted so I'm not concerned in repotting it to get a better root flare etc, I'll be air layering it eventually. however, id like to get it out of it's nursery soil into better draining substrate. I won't be severely cutting it back, just combing out, cutting any circling roots and replacing the soil. Am i too late?IMG_20240410_173425.jpgIMG_20240410_173406.jpgIMG_20240410_173349.jpgIMG_20240410_173456.jpg
 
I don't see any problems with that nursery soil. If the water is not pooling up excessively, I would just wait until next spring to repot. The tree looks healthy, so evidently the soil is doing its job. SOME nursery soil can be bad, but I don't think this soil is lacking in any way. If it was my tree, and the soil is draining properly, I would just leave it in that container for a couple of years to get bigger and healthier. As to your original question.........Yes, I think it's too late to repot.
 
If the soil it's in is no good, then yes you can repot, but you risk killing it. I've repotted maples in the dead heat of summer to save them from terrible soil. It's a risk/reward kinda thing.
 
If I had to transplant it, I would wait until the leaves harden off, then baby it afterwards
 
If you were in the southern U.S., it’d be iffy to repot it at this stage. In Ontario, I wouldn’t hesitate to repot it. I’m guessing that the only reason it’s even pushing out as much as it is is due to the nursery keeping it in a cold greenhouse instead of outdoors. Where I am in Michigan, repotting season has just begun and it’ll be a while yet before the heat of summer arrives. You’re further north, so it’s got even more time to get roots established in a new pot.
 
what is the actual point of repotting an otherwise healthy tree?
Soil that stays excessively wet can be a tree killer in our chilly northern climate. I try to get trees out of nursery soil and into a bonsai mix as soon as it is practical to do so because of this.
 
Why not leave it in the pot and air layer this year?
 
Just bought this Japanese Maple 'seiryu'. Its obviously grafted so I'm not concerned in repotting it to get a better root flare etc, I'll be air layering it eventually. however, id like to get it out of it's nursery soil into better draining substrate. I won't be severely cutting it back, just combing out, cutting any circling roots and replacing the soil. Am i too late?View attachment 539307View attachment 539308View attachment 539309View attachment 539310
The odds are it was recently up potted to the container you purchased it in. I see no need to repot at this point. I would consider starting an air layer when the leaves harden off.
You also may wish to allow time for the tree to harden off from nursery care as it may have been protected either at the nursery or the wholesaler just prior to shipping. I would observe and be cautious for a while. Lots of chance for frost in your neck of the woods for some time yet. Be prepared to provide protection if warranted. I am still providing extra protection for dwarf type maple cultivars until mid may.
 
Nursery growers select soil with the ideal drainage for the species and the given climate (or watering conditions). Therefore, it is likely this soil is absolutely perfect for growing out a bigger plant.
You want to repot when the tree becomes pot bound and it needs a larger pot. I highly doubt this one is pot bound because it seems to be recently played in this rather large pot.
This looks very fresh as well. Does the water not enter the soil when you water?

There's a reason nurseries don't grow JMs in substate/akadama/lava rock/coarse sand.
 
Nursery growers select soil with the ideal drainage for the species and the given climate (or watering conditions). Therefore, it is likely this soil is absolutely perfect for growing out a bigger plant.
You want to repot when the tree becomes pot bound and it needs a larger pot. I highly doubt this one is pot bound because it seems to be recently played in this rather large pot.
This looks very fresh as well. Does the water not enter the soil when you water?

There's a reason nurseries don't grow JMs in substate/akadama/lava rock/coarse sand.
Nurseries in the U.S. typically move their stock into a hoop house or similar during late fall, at least in my area that’s what they do. That means they have absolute control over the watering. For the average person without a greenhouse, our chilly and wet fall and winter can keep the soil mix local nurseries use far too wet. I have had trees die in the nursery can over the winter despite having done no bonsai work at all on the tree and I am convinced it was because of the soil mix staying too wet. I have a much higher survival rate for trees in bonsai substrate.

Nurseries choose the cheapest growing medium that they can successfully grow trees in for their growing conditions. But, their growing conditions typically include a protected indoor space for overwintering their stock.
 
The odds are it was recently up potted to the container you purchased it in. I see no need to repot at this point. I would consider starting an air layer when the leaves harden off.
You also may wish to allow time for the tree to harden off from nursery care as it may have been protected either at the nursery or the wholesaler just prior to shipping. I would observe and be cautious for a while. Lots of chance for frost in your neck of the woods for some time yet. Be prepared to provide protection if warranted. I am still providing extra protection for dwarf type maple cultivars until mid may.
I have my maples in a portable greenhouse at night to protect from frost. Or they can come in the unheated garage if we get some crazy late deep freeze.
 
Soil that stays excessively wet can be a tree killer in our chilly northern climate. I try to get trees out of nursery soil and into a bonsai mix as soon as it is practical to do so because of this.
This.

I've been buying these trees for the last few years, this time of year from Home Depot. We're not talking about high quality material here. They're always potted in the same heavy bark soil and usually way overpotted. (The wood chips in the picture, arn't the actual soil, it's just a top dressing). The first year, I was just leaving them in the nursery pot soil but they didn't do well. It stays way too wet. It's not an issue of percolation. Last year I repotted one i had just bought into PRO-MIX HP and it exploded. My little experience has shown me that JM's don't like being water logged. In my area at least.

That's why I want to change the soil over, but it's not an emergency either.
 
No repot is needed.

Concur with @River's Edge. Layer the tree.. Not that tiny.

Keep in the pot as is and air layer the tree above the graft after the leaves harden off. The rootstock on the graft is already swelling and will only get larger,

Actually a ground layer job. This will give the tree plenty of time to push new roots before fall. Whether or not the tree is separated this fall is a personal choice, but the tree could easily winter over with the layer on.

Doing so will save a year, getting this tree’s nebari started in the right direction. Once separated think about putting the tree in a box.

Think about making some minor reductions in the top hamper to get started on an effort to develop taper in key branches. These can
save one the trouble

Btw if you desire specific answers to questions, simple PM these folks. Start by hitting the envelope icon on top of the page.

cheers
DSD sends
 
What do you guys think, about timing, not my motive..haha @Shibui @leatherback
I’ve repotted stock further along on that. If your plan is to eventually replace the roots, I wouldn’t bother doing a lot of work on them. Take the tree out of the pot and very gently remove as much soil as you can from the roots Without being too aggressive, but there’s no need to completely bare root it.
 
Nurseries in the U.S. typically move their stock into a hoop house or similar during late fall, at least in my area that’s what they do. That means they have absolute control over the watering. For the average person without a greenhouse, our chilly and wet fall and winter can keep the soil mix local nurseries use far too wet. I have had trees die in the nursery can over the winter despite having done no bonsai work at all on the tree and I am convinced it was because of the soil mix staying too wet. I have a much higher survival rate for trees in bonsai substrate.

Nurseries choose the cheapest growing medium that they can successfully grow trees in for their growing conditions. But, their growing conditions typically include a protected indoor space for overwintering their stock.

I realize that nursery practices in the US are not completely the same as in Europe. But here in the Netherlands, nursery plants need to be absolutely of the highest quality, or else no one will buy them as the competition does have superior plants.
On top of that, the soil or substrate cost will not really be relevant compared to costs for labour, infrastructure, transport, fertilizer, etc. Whatever type of dirt you use, it is going to be dirt cheap. They will all be cheap. And whether you put pine bark, lava rock, perlite, peat, sharp sand or whatever in a bag, that all doesn't really matter. The main cost will be for putting that stuff inside a bag inside a factory and then shipping it to the customer. Not the cost of what is inside.
The idea that nurseries are using inferior soil because it is cheap so they can make more profit on lower quality plants just doesn't make sense. If it was better for them to use substrate, they would. If they needed more drainage to grow a better maple, they would have added lava rock.

Doesn't mean a tree can't get too wet in a nursery pot. Some places indeed get a ton of rain, much more than what they would get when irrigated inside a hoop house. And overpotting is a problem.
But in general, for growing normal plants aka broadleaf evergreens, fresh peat or pine bark is superior to substrate or lava rock when you grow outdoors. When you have a more controlled environment with fertigation, then you could use substrate/hydroponics. Cacti and some conifers that need way more drainage are also different of course.
Doesn't mean you can't mix in substrate when you grow JMs in nursery pots. It all depends on your climate and your watering regime. But when you get a nursery plant in fresh soil, that soil is generally good. There's no reason to go to 'bonsai soil' aka substrate.
The thing to worry about with a nursery plant/tree is if it has already been way too long inside that pot and it ought to have ben repotted already. That definitely doesn't seem the case here. Whether this specific maple is over-potted, I'll leave that to the JM experts.


Bonsai is entirely different. The issue is the very shallow pot and the limited amount of roots. Which requires daily watering and even morning and afternoon watering in summer. Which means that using soil, it would get too wet. The margin of error is way smaller because of the limited root volume. So you use fast-draining substrate and you water all the time.
 
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