Timing Reason For Late Fall/Early Winter Japanese Black Pine Work
- Thread starter mrcasey
- Start date
hemmy
Omono
One theory is that final shoot selection in the Fall after summer decandling, prevents the shoots from overly elongating rather than reducing to 2 earlier in the summer. Needle plucking to balance vigor can be done at different times of the year. I like cut back into old growth pruning at the same time as decandling in the summer.
Patrick K
Sapling
If you decandle the first flush, the second flush doesn’t harden off until that time
Paradox
Marine Bonsologist
Buds dont typically form until late summer. By fall you can sometimes see which buds are going to be more vigorous than others and can select accordingly to what you are trying to accomplish. Fall is also at the end of the yearly growth cycle so you can set the tree up for next year's growth
MaciekA
Shohin
I think it's a couple reasons , not all of them always overlapping
- decandled shoots waiting to come out of the oven, so we wait
- dilution of stored energy into larger number of kept unselected shoots leads to the dimunition in those shoots. See also larger unplucked previous-year needles if tree is in the process of making big needle reduction strides year by year
- sometimes you wait because you want to use the excess needles and shoots to gather up more energy for future use. Say the response this year was more muted than expected
- for some growers/gardens there is a backlog of single flush pines to work through first, and you intervene (to, as @Paradox says, "set up" for next year) with those earlier as they usually tend to be slower than JBP (or JBP-like pines). In that case JBP would come last anyway for practical reasons. If I am working on a limber pine, I want some "runway" left in the season to bake new buds in response to my adjustments, whereas JBP can catch up and respond to late-season changes much more quickly than other pines
- In The Dude's parlance, "new shit has come to light" by the very late season in terms of needle elongation and growth response which was not yet evident back in mid to late summer, and so maybe now you want to adjust the response of the upcoming spring flush. If you are dialing in shohin shoot sizes, maybe you want an early winter edit because you need to pump the brakes. Follow Japanese shohin growers on IG and you see needle trimming sessions at that time in hopes of pre-slowing the spring response. Doing it in July wouldn't have made sense since it wasn't yet clear how things were going, but also doing it in spring may be too late (because the buds are well on their way by then)
<climate / technique YMMV disclaimer>
- decandled shoots waiting to come out of the oven, so we wait
- dilution of stored energy into larger number of kept unselected shoots leads to the dimunition in those shoots. See also larger unplucked previous-year needles if tree is in the process of making big needle reduction strides year by year
- sometimes you wait because you want to use the excess needles and shoots to gather up more energy for future use. Say the response this year was more muted than expected
- for some growers/gardens there is a backlog of single flush pines to work through first, and you intervene (to, as @Paradox says, "set up" for next year) with those earlier as they usually tend to be slower than JBP (or JBP-like pines). In that case JBP would come last anyway for practical reasons. If I am working on a limber pine, I want some "runway" left in the season to bake new buds in response to my adjustments, whereas JBP can catch up and respond to late-season changes much more quickly than other pines
- In The Dude's parlance, "new shit has come to light" by the very late season in terms of needle elongation and growth response which was not yet evident back in mid to late summer, and so maybe now you want to adjust the response of the upcoming spring flush. If you are dialing in shohin shoot sizes, maybe you want an early winter edit because you need to pump the brakes. Follow Japanese shohin growers on IG and you see needle trimming sessions at that time in hopes of pre-slowing the spring response. Doing it in July wouldn't have made sense since it wasn't yet clear how things were going, but also doing it in spring may be too late (because the buds are well on their way by then)
<climate / technique YMMV disclaimer>
Wulfskaar
Masterpiece
I just read an article by someone local to my area that simply following the calendar blindly isn't the best, especially in a place like this, where we don't really have winter and our falls and winters are often interrupted by hot, dry windstorms.
He specifically mentioned that it might be as important to look at the 10 day weather forecast before doing work (as long as you are in the right season, of course).
1. Your climate is important in this conversation.
2. Trees don't always do things at the same time every year. I've noticed that some years deciduous trees turn color in Sep, while other years they wait until Nov/Dec. It's important to know when the tree is ready for whatever work you want to do.
3. The next week or two of weather is important. For example, last week I was itching to do some wiring and pruning on my JBP. This week it's going to be in the 80s-90s for a few days. It would probably be a good idea for me to wait until I know/think we aren't going to have unhelpful weather conditions.
With all that said, I'm still not entirely clear on how I can look at my JBP and know it's ready. Instead, I've either been doing the fall work when I see others are doing it, or just doing it and hoping for the best. Are there any physical signs on a JBP to help us know when is a good time for shoot reduction and wiring???
He specifically mentioned that it might be as important to look at the 10 day weather forecast before doing work (as long as you are in the right season, of course).
1. Your climate is important in this conversation.
2. Trees don't always do things at the same time every year. I've noticed that some years deciduous trees turn color in Sep, while other years they wait until Nov/Dec. It's important to know when the tree is ready for whatever work you want to do.
3. The next week or two of weather is important. For example, last week I was itching to do some wiring and pruning on my JBP. This week it's going to be in the 80s-90s for a few days. It would probably be a good idea for me to wait until I know/think we aren't going to have unhelpful weather conditions.
With all that said, I'm still not entirely clear on how I can look at my JBP and know it's ready. Instead, I've either been doing the fall work when I see others are doing it, or just doing it and hoping for the best. Are there any physical signs on a JBP to help us know when is a good time for shoot reduction and wiring???
Patrick K
Sapling
What I’ve been told and has been working well the last few years are really two easy to see things: new shoots and needles go from light green to dark green and the needles are more firmly attached and “sharper” if you touch them. The color is the easiest one to see for me as a general idea. Leave one shoot alone without decandling as a reference if you need to
Wulfskaar
Masterpiece
Mine have been dark green for a while now, and are sharp, so I guess it's a safe enough time to do some work. Thanks!
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